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-4^2 (Read 10413 times)

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the_bub_from_the_pit

#321 February 21, 2009, 10:51:16 am

Power to the flowers
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DON'T LUMP ME WITH MKKMYPET

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SpiralViper

#322 February 21, 2009, 11:44:20 am

Evil at its horniest.
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what the fuck every answer in my goddamn math textbook is wrong now.

oh well, THE MORE YOU KNOW i suppose...

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Carrion Crow

#323 February 21, 2009, 12:16:45 pm

I need to watch things die
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MATLAB.... for pros (Click to reveal)

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Vellfire

#324 February 21, 2009, 12:53:16 pm

TV people want to leave
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Quote from: FlowerPower on February 21, 2009, 10:50:50 am

ps. i didn't say it was BASIC MATHS entirely, i just genuinely thought every school went over this. apparently not, though. i'm pretty sure i would've forgotten how to do this in a couple of years since it's kind of useless in day-to-day life but this topic pretty much DRILLED it into me now.

Most schools do go over this, but think about how many things you learned in school that you've long forgotten. I think this is what Steel was saying, most people are so far removed from the lessons where they learned this that they tend to go with whichever one FEELS right (which for a lot of people means thinking of -4 as x, parentheses or not). It doesn't make it RIGHT it just means it's nothing to call someone stupid over because it's a very understandable mix-up.

Last Edit: February 21, 2009, 12:55:13 pm by Velfarre

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Rowain

#325 February 21, 2009, 02:32:17 pm

100% not arab
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This was something we learned ONCE in like grade 10, an basically never revisited. I remember being especially confused because teachers must've been IGNORING this rule for the 10 years of math leading up to that point, because I never recall getting a question wrong because of something like this. Still, I remember it to this day... possibly because of the sheer confusion it caused....

WHY SO SERIOUS HAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA

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dada

#326 February 21, 2009, 03:20:23 pm

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Quote from: Marmot on February 21, 2009, 09:56:08 am

this is garbage nobody cares. by this level calculus to me is as reflexive as sums and multiplications dont care about dumb obscure rule

Thanks, I'll add these to the list:

- nobody cares about this anyway!
- the rule you apply is obscure and dumb

EDIT: also, in response to MATLAB:

Code:[Select]

stalker21126:~ msikma$ python
Python 2.5.1 (r251:54863, Nov 11 2008, 17:46:48) 
[GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Inc. build 5465)] on darwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> -2**4
-16
>>> -2j**4
(-16-0j)
>>> print "%s %s, %s!" % ("take", "that", "stooges")
take that, stooges!
>>>

Last Edit: February 21, 2009, 03:27:06 pm by Dada

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BlackRaven

#327 February 21, 2009, 03:30:07 pm

Comrade!
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Eh.. Haha, all I can say is that you got me. Good one

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big ass skelly

#328 February 21, 2009, 03:45:33 pm

Ò_Ó
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Quote from: Dada on February 21, 2009, 09:35:46 am

ARGUMENTS BY PEOPLE WHO GOT IT WRONG:
- never heard of PEMDAS

I'm the only one who said this so I'm guess you're paraphrasing me. I said I've never heard of pedmas because I've never heard of pedmas, they taught bodmas in my school. It's not an argument about anything because anyone with 2 brain cell BELIEVES it when it's explained. You might want to change that entry in your list to "huh! maths"

Quote

Call me crazy, but other than the fact there is genuine discussion going on, I'm also sensing some sort of damaged ego for some people here.

You're crazy. I'm sensing a lot of smugness in making a lil list though. You were right though dada. It's ok. YOu were right.

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dada

#329 February 21, 2009, 04:11:27 pm

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Quote from: Mark on February 21, 2009, 03:45:33 pm

I'm the only one who said this so I'm guess you're paraphrasing me. I said I've never heard of pedmas because I've never heard of pedmas, they taught bodmas in my school. It's not an argument about anything because anyone with 2 brain cell BELIEVES it when it's explained. You might want to change that entry in your list to "huh! maths"

PEMDAS is used here as a substitute for all other variants. I never learned PEMDAS either. I learned MVDWOA (Mijnheer Van Dale Wacht Op Antwoord).

Quote from: Mark on February 21, 2009, 03:45:33 pm

You're crazy. I'm sensing a lot of smugness in making a lil list though. You were right though dada. It's ok. YOu were right.

I'm adding another to the list:

- stop gloating!!

Seriously though, the list is mostly just a joke. I'm not convening myself to be more than those who got it wrong. If anything, this poll proves that it's something a lot of people get wrong, regardless of savvy or knowledge of mathematics. Steel started this topic to find out why so many people get this wrong, and I followed it to see how people would defend themselves after being proven wrong. Some don't care too much (they SHOULDN'T, since getting this wrong proves nothing at all), but some apparently feel the need to defend their gut feeling with whatever it takes. THAT'S interesting (to me).

So far, two good reasons I've heard for getting this wrong are:
- by speaking the equation out loud (or mentally) you are implicitly putting (-4) in parentheses
- due to not knowing of unary operators, -4 is considered to be a number rather than an expression with one operand

Both are good reasons. They're incorrect, but logical.

Last Edit: February 21, 2009, 04:13:37 pm by Dada

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dragonx

#330 February 21, 2009, 04:56:00 pm

I r TEH DrAgOn RaR
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Dada we figured out all those reasons if you read the topic -_-

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Evangel

#331 February 21, 2009, 05:03:27 pm

brown priyde yea mayne
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Quote from: BlackRaven on February 21, 2009, 03:30:07 pm

Eh.. Haha, all I can say is that you got me. Good one

yeah man got me too, youre quicker than 50% of the forum

keep posting...

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Silhouette

#332 February 21, 2009, 05:44:06 pm

Hey, I'm back. Cool, huh?
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I am too lazy to read everything, but it comes down to this...
When you say "negative 4 squared," the answer is 16, because "negative 4" is a quantity that you're squaring.
However, most calculators read -4^2 as -(4)^2, and because of order of operations, it takes 4^2 and then makes it negative.
I believe the first way is more "correct," as if the second operation was desired, one should make it clear by adding parentheses like -(4^2).
Although to be honest, it'd be best as well in the first case to write (-4)^2. So the moral is, use your parentheses to define quantities.

Webmaster, www.wmsigler.net

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goldenratio

#333 February 21, 2009, 05:55:51 pm

now das fresh
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no the moral is that most people think of negative as a quantitative statement, meaning the item its next is a "negative" value, when actually negation is an operation (with a spot in the order of operations). the point is that nobody really knows about this and so unless you know the question or have specifically been taught this for whatever reason, you will assume negative is affecting the value as opposed to acting as an operation in the equation.

yes coulombs are "germaine", did you learn that word at talk like a dick school?

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dada

#334 February 21, 2009, 05:57:56 pm

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Quote from: dragonx on February 21, 2009, 04:56:00 pm

Dada we figured out all those reasons if you read the topic

Your point being?

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Fire Mage

#335 February 21, 2009, 06:23:36 pm

Woof Woof
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I can't believe I read the majority of all this...

But either way at least I got it right beforehand!

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cowardknower

#336 February 21, 2009, 06:32:25 pm

The MONSTER that lives inside of your COUCH!
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oh thats right dammit i got it wrong

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dragonx

#337 February 21, 2009, 06:37:09 pm

I r TEH DrAgOn RaR
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Quote from: Dada on February 21, 2009, 05:57:56 pm

Your point being?

let me take that back

thanks for being a summary dada

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Vellfire

#338 February 21, 2009, 06:58:08 pm

TV people want to leave
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This math problem is like moving the dash when using ass in a sentence (there was an xkcd comic about this i think but i was doing it before i read that so NOT A REFERENCE TO DAT SHIT)

that's a big-ass car
that's a big ass-car

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goldenratio

#339 February 21, 2009, 08:05:00 pm

now das fresh
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no its not because moving the dash is not a "secret operation most people dont know about"

yes coulombs are "germaine", did you learn that word at talk like a dick school?

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dragonx

#340 February 21, 2009, 08:14:58 pm

I r TEH DrAgOn RaR
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Quote from: Gabriel on February 21, 2009, 08:05:00 pm

no its not because moving the dash is not a "secret operation most people dont know about"

well actually it is if you look carefully

that's a big-ass car
that's a big ass-car

now lets get rid of the that's a

big-ass car
big ass-car

now lets assume a dash is subtraction and a space is addition so

big - ass + car
big + ass - car

if we multiply both of these by -1(lets call this negation)

-(big - ass + car) = -big + ass - car, or ass-big-car
-(big + ass - car) = -big - ass + car, or car-big-ass

thanks

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16	87	51.5%
-16	67	39.6%
I don't know how to do this math	15	8.9%
Status: Voting has ended	168	Total Votes

Poll: dont read the thread, just answer

-4^2 (Read 10413 times)