I don't blame anyone for wanting to pound pedophiles into the ground, but at the end of the day, that doesn't solve a thing.

i want to point out the irony that according to that political topic most of the people on this forum are extreme left.  this goes to show you that regardless of how you think there are certain subjects people absolutely refuse to "tolerate" even in the pursuit of knowledge and greater understanding.

It's not a sexual orientation.

Sexual orientation is what genders you sexually attracted to. Children are not a gender, they have a gender but there is no gender called Children.

okay so maybe not orientation, my bad, I just thought the quote was pretty good so I felt like using it. I think fetish is the right word for this then.

Ugh.  Pedophilia is considered wrong because children are A) not physically developed B ) not world wise/intelligent enough/etc to make decisions for themselves in many respects.  They can't give informed consent because most kids just aren't at a place mentally where they could really BE informed.

Sorry not a troll post. And my case is that because its wrong doesn't automatically make it a disorder. It can be illegal, but that doesn't make the pedophiles clinically disturbed people.

I don't think people being attracted to kids is wrong. I find the idea pretty weird and hard to relate too, but i guess it's just something people have.
However, it's when people act on their feelings for children that things start getting out of hand (for the reasons listed above).

Yeah this. I find it to be basically descrimination when you just immediately call these people insane or evil.

When someone constantly feels driven to do something awful (IE kill someone or whatever), its still considered a mental disorder isn't it?

yes I suppose it is, but there's a difference between having an attraction and RAPING CHILDREN 24/7!

I am not advocating the ACT, I am defending the ATTRACTION!

Not true if that is his case, homosexuality has basically always been considered a sexual orientation because...well...it's what a sexual orientation is. It's just been considered a wrong/terrible/sinful orientation because people are stupid. If anyone considered it a paraphilia then they are dumb. The main reason why homosexuality can't be a paraphilia is because homosexuality is not based around a non-consenting person (that is just rape if a guy has sex with a non-consenting guy) and the urges/fantasies/behaviors do not cause distress or interpersonal difficulty with the other person involved (unless if it is rape).

Ah, very good point. I've learned a lil something. So it is different than pedophilia then. Good point, however it was still being discriminated against, which is kind of what the pedophilia situation is now.

pedos are fucking sick and should be pounded into the ground, not a fake post, hope this helps.

good job fucknut

Pedophilia should be considered a disorder if you disregard the semantic psychobabble and approach things from a more pragmatic point of view.  I think that the one thing everyone can agree upon is that it is a despicable practice that deserves absolutely no form of encouragement from anyone.  It is something that is not socially acceptable under any circumstances and is punishable by law for very good reason.  Therefore, why not treat it as a disorder? 

Lets say that I look at black people from a pragmatic point of view (yes I'm comparing pedos and blacks now!). I can see that a lot of blacks are responsible for rape and thefts, primarily in the inner cities. Those actions are not socially acceptable and are also punishable by law...and yet it would be completely racist and discriminatory to take all the blacks from the areas in question and confine them to prisons or keep them under guard and on record IN CASE they commit a crime. So the point of this comparison which i'm sure will end up offending people is this: replace black with pedo and that's pretty much how we are treating the pedophiles.

The one thing that I think is utterly ridiculous about this thread is the idea that pedophilia should be accepted as a sexual orientation.  I don't know what your personal definition of that phrase is and it doesn't really matter in the first place, but society warming up to the idea of child RAPE (i.e. pedophilia) would have lots of negative repercussions that are a bit too depraved to even mention.

Fair enough, and its ture i am wrong on this point. Sexual orientation isn't right, its more like "fetish".

You'd say, from some point of view, that since homosexuality and pedophilia both deal with sexual preference, they're likely to stem from a similar source, but I don't think that's the case. But it probably will take a while before we figure that out because of how difficult it is to accurately analyze the brain's function.

True. In fact I'm pretty sure that all fetishes and orientations or whathaveyou (in the end I'm talking about what it is you want to fuck) come from the same place in the end. It deals with the same area I'm guessing even though the origins of the fetish/orientation must be different.

With pedophilia, there is a universally non-subjective agreement that sexually abusing, hurting, or imagining the abuse of  children under the age of consent is disgusting, selfish, and unhealthy.

its kind of subjective...

but yeah i have no idea how you can call it a universally non-subjective agreement because it really isnt.

yeah this

Given that children aren't physically or mentally fully developed to any degree and they're not fit to give consent, pedophilia is fucking terrible.

the end

pedophiles aren't people.

good job having an intelligent discussion guys

I see that what you mean is, the WRONG part of pedophilia is the RAPE part, not the fetish paraphilia in itself, because while raping someone is a conscious choice from the rapist to do something despicable to an unwilling victim, the URGE to do it brought by the unfortunate fetish paraphilia in itself is not a choice, just like how homosexuality or having any kind of sexual fetish paraphilia or preference or taste are not choices. Where there is no choice, there cannot be "right" or "wrong". I understand that.

yes this is what I'm talking about entirely. you make a good point though about the euphemism part...its still a fetish anyway you look at it, the action is just a crime. my issue is calling it a disorder

Man, what?  Sexual orientation does not mean the same thing as fetish.  Are you serious?

Yeah so sorry to be confusing. I didn't mean accepting it as an orientation my bad.

Ah, so pedophilia isn't a fetish either? I just used the wrong term in the post? What would the right term be? I thought fetish just meant, something someone sees as sexual that isnt typically by most people, not something as specific as "OBJECT OR PART OF BODY"

No my argument is that it IS a fetish.

While I agree that pedophilia is disgusting and wrong and that Bravo you are INSANE . . .

Not all countries have the same age of sexual consent.  I have always wondered if countries like France (I think) are filled with pedophiles?  Cultural differences on sexuality are pretty interesting I think!

But holy shit wanting to have sex with young boys or underdeveloped girls without boobs etc is pretty gross.

Oh yeah thanks bud.

Here's the thing, in YOUR mind, its gross. I'm sure that you'd find the idea of you yourself having sex with full grown dudes (switch if i'm mistaking your gender or orientation) also really gross. The pedophile? Obviously he does not see having sex with children discusting, it is in fact what turns him on.

Pedophilia in the sense of actually raping kids is not a mental disorder and should not be viewed as such.

wait what?

A ton of paraphilia's are illegal cause a shit ton of them involve non-consenting people (pedophilia, exhibitionism, voyeurism, Frotteurism, etc) , the rest because they harm another person (if done non-consensually). There are fetishes that are basically "safe" things of Paraphilia.

So difference is paraphilia is illegal while fetish is legal?

fyi the best thing about this topic so far is the "(Jerry Seinfeld voic​" in the title because every time i read it i get to do the jerry seinfeld voice and how can that just not make a man smile.

Yeah clever right?

buuuut, man sets what is considered "normal."  homosexuality was just as abnormal as necrophilia until recently.  both "conditions" exist solely in the mind, they exist at birth but usually don't trigger until a certain age, and they can't be cured.  no tests have proven so, but people who suppress their urges often become mentally damaged (usually through anxiety or some sort of trauma).

Yeah this is what's pissing me off basically is that the majority gets to decide what is right. I mean, obviously it is the best way to live, because we can't have 1 man happy while 5.99 billion are miserable, but it annoys me that the minority is discriminated against for having something which makes them different. there's no fixing this really, but the way I view the world has made me hate hypocrites and those who discriminate. and anyone who isn't racist, sexist, or homophobic and still hates pedophiles fits under both. I really won't be comfortable until either I am proven wrong, or pedophilia is no longer considered to be a disorder.

as for all these arguments saying "if you think about killing people to the point where you can't interact with society anymore, is that not a disorder?" well, these are good points. and yes, I suppose it would be a disorder, just as a pedophile looking at a child and everytime thinking, man as soon as I get the chance I want to hit that. well, that person would have to get some sort of help because no way is that healthy thinking. at the end of the day though, I see it as THE SAME as any alcohol anonymous or sex addicts help group. it is the same because you are looking for hel with your urges you can't control...so I guess I'm saying that alcoholism and being over-sexed to the point where you see other people as primarily sexual objects are also disorders to a degree. having a single drink every now and then or having consensual sex with someone a reasonalbe amount is not a disorder, and neither should be non-extreme thoughts of pedophilia (that is, you have the thoughts but you aren't to the point where you want to rape every kid you see).

its a grey area guys, i'm confusing myself too because I don't have the answers

I like how your replies to oneliners is GOOD JOB GUYS and then most of your own replies are the same thing you said in the OP or a one liner.

Yeah I noticed that too. But you know what they say, use few words and you save energy. And well, that's what happens when you try to reply to most of the posts in a topic, shouldn't have done that maybe.

It isn't a fetish and if you followed the topic I already explained it is considered a Paraphilia and a mental disorder. There is a big difference between Paraphilia and Fetish.

yaaaaay back to page 1.

So difference is paraphilia is illegal while fetish is legal?

Yes, it is not like I clearly already showed the differences between both of them like 5 times already all on the same page, but sure why not do it again...

Sexual orientation - "the gender of what you are sexually attracted to or not sexually attracted to based on gender."

Fetish - "any object or nongenital part of the body that causes a habitual erotic response or fixation."

Paraphilia - "a condition in which a human's sexual arousal and gratification depends upon fantasizing about and engaging in sexual behavior that is atypical and extreme, is "distinguished by a preoccupation with the object or behavior to the point of being dependent on that object or behavior for sexual gratification," and dependent upon the individual acting on said urges "with a non-consenting person or the urges, sexual fantasies, or behaviors cause marked distress or interpersonal difficulty”.

Yeah I read those but unfortunately i don't get this part:

An example of that would be BDSM. There is a paraphilia for wanting people to hurt you (Sexual Masochism), and if you engage in this activity with a non-consenting adult, it is a paraphilia and is illegal. However, some people enjoy BDSM with consenting partners and use a secret word, and as such that is a fetish (also called Sexual Masochism) and that is legal because no one is really "getting hurt" since consenting people are doing it.

By the definittions given above, it can never be considered a fetish because its not "objects" which turn you on, its basically "fantasizing about and engaging in sexual behavoir that is atypical and extreme". it being legal means that it is called a fetish though? The difference in the end isn't that big if legal/illegal is the issue.

no it isn't the LEGAL or illegal, it's that the paraphilia BDSM involves non-consenting people or the person involved NEEDS IT for sexual gratification, whereas the fetish BDSM is with consenting people or the person involved doesn't need it for sexual gratification (but enjoys it). there's multiple parts to it. The consenting part, the NEED for sexual gratification, etc.

This thread has actually been very enlightening for me.  I had previously assumed that pedophiles deserved to be pounded but I never really thought about the key distinction between a pedophile and a child rapist.  Even though the OP is maybe not worded exactly the way the author intended it to be, I probably agree with him.

I actually have a lot of pity for the suffering pedophile who does not act out on his (disgusting and horrible) desires.

Pedophilia in the sense of actually raping kids is not a mental disorder and should not be viewed as such. EDIT: It's something much worse. Holy fuck what. I forgot what I was going to say and said something completely different along the way, sorry.

FIXED. Thanks for noticing it for me, Bravo.

Lets say that I look at black people from a pragmatic point of view (yes I'm comparing pedos and blacks now!). I can see that a lot of blacks are responsible for rape and thefts, primarily in the inner cities. Those actions are not socially acceptable and are also punishable by law...and yet it would be completely racist and discriminatory to take all the blacks from the areas in question and confine them to prisons or keep them under guard and on record IN CASE they commit a crime.

Almost a valid point, but being black is not a disorder.  Also, since when is anyone preemptively rounding up suspected pedophiles and throwing them in jail/rehab?  I haven't really heard of this before.

I look at it this way:  any action that is even remotely associated with pedophilia should be punishable to the fullest extent of the law.  I feel absolutely no pity for people who only get caught with child pornography as they are condoning and probably supporting someone else raping a child.  I'm also not sorry that police are essentially utilizing entrapment to catch these wackjobs on the internet who think they can hook up with 12-year-olds on myspace. 

The only place an individual has the right to entertain thoughts about sex with a child is in their own twisted little fantasies, and even then they should probably look for someone to talk to before they find themselves acting upon their depraved urges.  So yes, pedophilia should be considered a disorder.  A violent and threatening disorder at that.   

The BDSM guy was just that one bit luckier than the pedophile, because his own fantasies can be carried out legally, and he can live a pretty normal life. The pedophile simply cant. Isn't it terrifying, the idea that something inside you that you have absolutely no control over could suddenly come out and make you someone regarded as inhuman to the whole world(-Japan heh)? I mean, I imagine coming to terms with your homosexuality can be pretty hard. But it is probably nothing like this.

Imagine that you found out you are a pedophile, like right now. Its not like you could do anything about it, you would probably hate yourself, and start actively avoiding any situation with children or something, just like I imagine teenager homosexuals probably try to avoid any situations with naked males around them, like the gym locker room. Imagine you realize you are a pedophile AND YOU HAVE CHILDREN, holy shit. Could you ever like even look at them again? I am assuming random people don't just turn into pedophiles but its still pretty fucken scary! (well do they? Do we have any idea how many pedophiles there are like out of like X people? I'm guessing its something like 1 out of 1000?)


But honestly? I don't see how this should make it any less of a disorder. Actually, I think it looks more and more like it should definitely be regarded as a disorder, and studied and treated as such, so they are looked more as victims of an unfortunate psychological condition than monsters who will all end up raping children.

This image of pedophiles as monsters probably keeps most of them from seeking psychological help, scared that they'd just be thrown in jail instead or receiving some kind of support. Probably that someone who keeps their sexuality repressed has much more chances of becoming a rapist, while one who is actively seeking help will probably have more control.

I dont think that sexual proclivities are genetic that is a pretty ridiculous idea.  What gets you off isn't hardwired into you 100% in every respect.