Debate (Jerry Seinfeld voice:) What's the deal with pedophilia? (Read 2404 times)

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I think that pedophillia should never be considered a "Grey Area" as it's pretty much wrong in everyway. It's great to love children, they exist to BE loved... But you have to know your limitation. Harbouring those types of thoughts are not healthy as it will only increase your chance of try putting those thoughts into practice. What's the point of thinking something you could never practice?

There's no consent, and honestly who could you even do this with? Your own children? No other parent will let you do this unless they suffer from the same derange thoughts.
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the right term would be mental disorder.
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Ah found the correct term, its paraphilia, and not fetish. SORRY ABOUT THE GROSS MISUNDERSTANDING.....

Edit: oops no, paraphillia is only used for when its extreme I think
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Ah, so pedophilia isn't a fetish either? I just used the wrong term in the post? What would the right term be? I thought fetish just meant, something someone sees as sexual that isnt typically by most people, not something as specific as "OBJECT OR PART OF BODY"

Paraphilia. As I said above.

Sexual Fetishism is a paraphilia, pedophilia is a type of paraphilia, there's a shit ton of paraphilia's. A lot of people say they are "fetishes" but that isn't exactly correct. Pretty much anything related to sex that ends in ilia is a Paraphilia not a fetish.

Wikipedia has a list here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_paraphilias. It's pretty easy to see the difference between the two then.
Last Edit: August 11, 2008, 07:09:17 pm by HL
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Okay but now just read my post replacing instances of the term fetish by paraphilia I guess? Is it still UTTER NONSENSE, or are there real fundamental differences between an orientation and a paraphilia, other than MAGNITUDE?
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While I agree that pedophilia is disgusting and wrong and that Bravo you are INSANE . . .

Not all countries have the same age of sexual consent.  I have always wondered if countries like France (I think) are filled with pedophiles?  Cultural differences on sexuality are pretty interesting I think!

But holy shit wanting to have sex with young boys or underdeveloped girls without boobs etc is pretty gross.
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Well, there are those pedophiles that don't act on their desires, or otherwise find healthier outlets to them (drawing, writing, etc). I still find it a bit creepy, but I don't think that those "pedos" should be killed/are not people/etc. They, at least, have the common sense and self-control required for them to refrain from acting. If anything, they could get counseling for that kind of thing, if they wanted. Not all pedophiles can be thrown into the same category as child molesters.

Harbouring those types of thoughts are not healthy as it will only increase your chance of try putting those thoughts into practice. What's the point of thinking something you could never practice?
Man, this is like saying that all fiction writers EXPECT to be able to fly/develop magical powers/time travel/etc. Of course it's possible to think of things without acting upon them. Hate to draw a darker analogy, but it's not like everyone who has had murderous thoughts (and this is, like, most people) will actually end up killing someone. Just because I've imagined stealing something doesn't mean that I will. It's self-restraint, rationality, and common sense that keeps people from doing things they'll regret. I imagine closet pedophiles understand this just as well as we understand it, and avoid committing sexual crimes just as we avoid committing regular crimes.
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Pedophilia in the sense of actually raping kids is not a mental disorder and should not be viewed as such. EDIT: It's something much worse. Holy fuck what. I forgot what I was going to say and said something completely different along the way, sorry.

On the contrary, if you are a sick inhabitant of 4chan and fap to loli/shota 24/7, that is a somewhat different issue, which is probably what you were thinking when you made that topic. I think neither case deserves sympathy or support(okay well, at the very least the second one is somewhat less prone on actually MOLESTING CHILDREN or so I've heard but still, askjhasfkjhasfkjhsakh!).
EDIT: I partially agree with this.
Last Edit: August 12, 2008, 10:25:49 pm by abort
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pedos are fucking sick and should be pounded into the ground, not a fake post, hope this helps.

I think pedophilia is a disorder and I don't think they should be "pounded". I think pedophiles are some of the people that suffer more in the world and I think they should be helped. I think the whole PROTECT OUR CHILDREN AND FAMILIES attitude is deeply reactionary and doesn't solves the problem. Besides, not all pedos act - only some of them do.
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Okay but now just read my post replacing instances of the term fetish by paraphilia I guess? Is it still UTTER NONSENSE, or are there real fundamental differences between an orientation and a paraphilia, other than MAGNITUDE?

Um.

There is a pretty glaring difference between the two other than magnitude. Sexual orientation is about gender, paraphilia is a subset of that. It isn't different magnitutde, it's completely different. You can be a homosexual pedophile, or a heterosexual pedophile, or a bisexual pedophile, or a straight parthenophile or a straight foot fetishist etc. Sexual orientation is the gender of what sexually turns you on, paraphilia is what you can't be without sexually/involve non consenting people/caused marked stress or interpersonal difficulty (not classified by gender), and a fetish is basically a paraphilia that is not taken to the extreme level because it is done by consenting adults and are completely safe because of that (and generally your entire sexual life isn't based around it since it isn't taken to the extreme). (obviously this isn't the exact PSYCHOLOGICAL definition but I'm simplifying it for you.)

Example so you get it:
Heterosexual: Like the opposite sex sexually. (This is a sexual orientation. You will want nothing to do with men sexually.)
Paraphilia: Pedophilia. You have a desire or fantasize about having not consented sex with Children that will cause harm, stress, and interpersonal difficulty with the child. The type of child depends on your sexual orientation.
Fetish: Foot fetishism. You enjoy, desire, and fantasize having foot sex play of some kind with a consenting adult. What type of adult that is depends on your sexual orientation.
Paraphilia: Exhibitionism. You have a desire or fantasize about exposing one's genitals to an unsuspecting person. (Can also be the recurrent urge or behavior to perform sexual acts in a public place, or in view of unsuspecting persons.)
Paraphilia: Voyeurism. The recurrent urge or behavior to observe an unsuspecting person who is naked, disrobing or engaging in sexual activities, or may not be sexual in nature at all.
Fetish: Pregnancy fetishism. You enjoy, desire, and fantasize about having sex play of some kind with a consenting pregnant adult.
Bisexual: Like both sexes sexually.

A ton of paraphilia's are illegal cause a shit ton of them involve non-consenting people (pedophilia, exhibitionism, voyeurism, Frotteurism, etc) , the rest because they harm another person (if done non-consensually). There are fetishes that are basically "safe" things of Paraphilia.

An example of that would be BDSM. There is a paraphilia for wanting people to hurt you (Sexual Masochism), and if you engage in this activity with a non-consenting adult, it is a paraphilia and is illegal. However, some people enjoy BDSM with consenting partners and use a secret word, and as such that is a fetish (also called Sexual Masochism) and that is legal because no one is really "getting hurt" since consenting people are doing it.

Sexual orientation and paraphilia's/fetishes are not close to the same at all in regards to what they are about. Yes, they are all related to what sexually excites you, but they are about as similar as a mango and an orange are: they're both fruits.
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SO our discussion right now is like arguing about SHOULD APPLES BE CONSIDERED A VEGETABLE? IE its pointless because the term is not vague in any way and the categories are based on simple boundaries that no amount of opinion or point of view will change?

In this case perhaps the original post was just badly worded, and should have read "Should pedophilia be considered a mental disorder?" rather than "should it be considered a mental disorder OR an orientation?" Because there isn't any discussion to be had with the latter.
Last Edit: August 11, 2008, 08:25:17 pm by Frankie
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Hey Wunderbred, I'm just looking out for the children. Things like personal failures, depression, loneliness, can alter are normal "rational" behaviour. We our human and we are subjected to all the things that can happen to us because we are human. If things like that are in the back of your head then your only more susceptible to doing things of that nature when you're not in your normal mind state.

I don't why people tend to take one thing and compare it to another thing, I guess it's just human nature. I'm not saying that we are not in control of ourselves. What I'm suggesting is that it's best to avoid these type of things, if you can't agree with me on that then I don't know what else to say.
Last Edit: August 11, 2008, 09:20:29 pm by The Illusionist
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SO our discussion right now is like arguing about SHOULD APPLES BE CONSIDERED A VEGETABLE? IE its pointless because the term is not vague in any way and the categories are based on simple boundaries that no amount of opinion or point of view will change?

bad example, should a potato be considered a fruit? is better

i think we should approach this topic logically, like the greeks. just kidding! dicks are blind, society isn't
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haha what??? I don't recall ever being GW's resident neurologist or mental disorder specialist! Perhaps you are confusing me with 4DSheep or maybe Lord Kamina (or whatever Chilean it was that has a bio degree).
No, but you're one of the few who's studying biology. You gave me those vodcasts, remember?

What I'd like to repeat here is that any form of condonation of the actions of a pedophile is clearly impossible, but that this is not what's interesting to discuss. At the very least you could discuss how different cultures condemn the practice, but it's pretty unequivocal that they do. Just stating your disdain isn't going to actually, you know, solve problems.

It's kind of funny, by the way. I think we're seeing one of the not-so-subtle differences between the United States and Europe. Let's face it: you guys aren't as civilized as we are.

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I personally view pedophilia closer to a fetish than a sexual orientation. Personally, I don't really care what/who someone is sexually attracted to. I do, however, have a problem with non-consensual sex, and since children don't have the mental capacity or maturity (not to mention physical development) to make such a decision, I can't agree with the act of pedophilia. It's unfortunate for pedophiles, who I presume don't have a conscious decision in the target of their sexual attraction (much like homosexuals), but are forbidden to act upon those desires.
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dude pedophilia is a mental disorder. plain and simple. Any repetitive thought which acting upon would mean hurting somebody permanently is a mental disorder in my opinion. if you are constantly thinking about killing people you have a mental disorder.

oh, and unguided, just so you know:
Quote
Odaxelagnia: sexual arousal associated with biting or being bitten
this is actually really common. especially in females, and so is scratching and choking (i mean not to the point where you can't breathe just like slight pressure on the throat).
don't call me weird because I like when girls bite me or I want to bite a girl every once in a while.

That's from personal experience because me and a lot of girls I've talked to/liked whatever have been into that stuff.
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fyi the best thing about this topic so far is the "(Jerry Seinfeld voic​" in the title because every time i read it i get to do the jerry seinfeld voice and how can that just not make a man smile.
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Quote
Sexual orientation is something that is developed over time.  It's not something that BAM!  you just get it one day when you're four years old and now all of a sudden you're cool to go out and have consensual sex with someone 24 years older than you.

neither is pedophilia

it's interesting to note that "mental disorder" is purely a man made concept and is currently defined as any interruption in the thought process that goes against "normal" development.  as animals, are our base desire is to survive and reproduce.  this would classify pretty much every thing we do as a disorder; compulsive spending, over eating, casual sex (you know, pretty much everything people in developed countries do on a daily basis) can be considered disorders as they do not directly affect our two base desires.  

buuuut, man sets what is considered "normal."  homosexuality was just as abnormal as necrophilia until recently.  both "conditions" exist solely in the mind, they exist at birth but usually don't trigger until a certain age, and they can't be cured.  no tests have proven so, but people who suppress their urges often become mentally damaged (usually through anxiety or some sort of trauma).

it's actually been proven that homosexuals are at a higher risk of mental disorders as a result of society's views on it.  perhaps pedophiles become sexual predators because they understand that their urges are frowned on by society thus causing them to desire the object more.

of course, no scientist would ever touch the subject because of society's negative views.  would you give up your morality in an attempt to study something that could possibly be cured?
Last Edit: August 12, 2008, 02:29:06 am by Marcus
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Thanks, Google.
Last Edit: August 12, 2008, 08:57:41 am by Dada
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of course, no scientist would ever touch the subject because of society's negative views.  would you give up your morality in an attempt to study something that could possibly be cured?
This is actually partly what I was talking about before. Although a lot of study is being done, it certainly does matter that nobody wants to touch the subject. That's because every single time the subject is even mentioned, people start talking about how much they'd like to hurt and harass pedophiles. This topic's the same.

I don't blame anyone for wanting to pound pedophiles into the ground, but at the end of the day, that doesn't solve a thing. Whatever is causing pedophilia should be properly researched so that we can understand it better. That's really what matters mostly, because that's how we get closer to knowing how to deal with it.
Last Edit: August 12, 2008, 08:58:50 am by Dada