Debate (Jerry Seinfeld voice:) What's the deal with pedophilia? (Read 2404 times)

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Until recently, perhaps 30 years ago, homosexuality was seen as a mental disorder. Now? Obviously not. If anyone says different, everyone, fucking EVERYONE jumps on them and says, "no its not he's just a sinner he's completely normal!" Now, however, pedophilia is seen as being what homosexuality was. Quote wikipedia: "As a medical diagnosis, it is defined as a psychological disorder in which an adult experiences a sexual preference for prepubescent children and has engaged or may engage in child sexual abuse;" Myself, being an ignorant teenager with an opinion on things, thinks that this is just stupid.

There was actually a thread here a couple months ago in which pedophilia was discussed, and I "defended" it by saying, no its not a disorder. Of course, I got jumped on by a couple of people, but since that thread didn't exchange facts, rather only blows, I didn't learn anything. The purpose of this thread is not to incite, bait, or upset; rather this is a serious attempt to learn. My problem with classifying pedophilia as a disorder is that I don't see any cause for it other than people viewing it as distasteful and wanting to sweep it under the rug (same with gays until recently amirite).

Potential arguments you guys may have:
-How DARE you compare homosexuality and pedophilia!
Why not? Its the closest comparison I think humanity has. Both are/were seen as unsavory differences in our society and thus had "treatment centers" opened for them. There's (usually) christian led gay camps trying to turn people straight. And "[a]lthough pedophilia has no cure at this time, various treatments are available that are aimed at reducing or preventing the expression of pedophilic behavior, reducing the prevalence of child sexual abuse. Treatment of pedophilia often requires collaboration between law enforcement and health care professionals. A number of proposed treatment techniques for pedophilia have been developed, though the success rate of these therapies has been very low." (wikipedia) So please, give me a reason to not compare them while staying your anger.

-Pedophilia is a disgusting act which takes advantage of innocent children! How can you possibly support it?
I don't.

-Pedophilia is a disorder because pedophiles can not function in society.
This may be true, I don't know because I haven't had any information on this statement's validity. A possible counterargument would be that pedophiles are not ALL going to rape a child given the chance. Its more likely to happen than not perhaps because our society has placed such a stigma against this act that they have no other possible release. Also, is rape of an adult different? Is the rapist a fully functioning member of society? I think not. Something I'm not sure of however is whether this form of rape is seen as a mental disorder (not likely) or is it just viewed as an isolated crime which must be punished because rape is rape and there's no reason to look into the deeper psychological aspects as to why this person raped someone but say they did it for lust and a feeling of power? (this option)

To close, I suppose my view is the same as that of pro-pedophilia activist Frits Bernard: the "acceptance of pedophilia as a sexual orientation rather than a psychological disorder." ...ew I have the same opinion as a pedo!
edit: I've been proven wrong, Lets call it a fetish instead.
Last Edit: August 12, 2008, 08:51:07 pm by Bravo
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It's not a sexual orientation.

Sexual orientation is what genders you sexually attracted to. Children are not a gender, they have a gender but there is no gender called Children.

Pedophilia is a Paraphilia - "a condition in which a human's sexual arousal and gratification depends upon fantasizing about and engaging in sexual behavior that is atypical and extreme, is "distinguished by a preoccupation with the object or behavior to the point of being dependent on that object or behavior for sexual gratification," and dependent upon the individual acting on said urges "with a non-consenting person or the urges, sexual fantasies, or behaviors cause marked distress or interpersonal difficulty”.
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Ugh.  Pedophilia is considered wrong because children are A) not physically developed B ) not world wise/intelligent enough/etc to make decisions for themselves in many respects.  They can't give informed consent because most kids just aren't at a place mentally where they could really BE informed.

So the problem with it is that it is pretty unequivocally harmful and etc, both physically and psychologically.

Anyway, is this a troll post?  It has to be a troll post.

It's not a sexual orientation.

Sexual orientation is what genders you sexually attracted to. Children are not a gender, they have a gender but there is no gender called Children.

Pedophilia is a Paraphilia - "a condition in which a human's sexual arousal and gratification depends upon fantasizing about and engaging in sexual behavior that is atypical and extreme, is "distinguished by a preoccupation with the object or behavior to the point of being dependent on that object or behavior for sexual gratification," and dependent upon the individual acting on said urges "with a non-consenting person or the urges, sexual fantasies, or behaviors cause marked distress or interpersonal difficulty”.

I think hes saying that homosexuality USED to be considered a paraphilia as well and now its an orientation.  Our buddy bravo is trying to make the case that pedophilia and homosexuality should BOTH be considered orientations.
Last Edit: August 11, 2008, 04:12:08 pm by conchfeld
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I think it's pretty essential you distinguish between a paedophile and a sexual predator type here.

I don't think people being attracted to kids is wrong. I find the idea pretty weird and hard to relate too, but i guess it's just something people have.
However, it's when people act on their feelings for children that things start getting out of hand (for the reasons listed above).
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When someone constantly feels driven to do something awful (IE kill someone or whatever), its still considered a mental disorder isn't it?
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I think hes saying that homosexuality USED to be considered a paraphilia as well and now its an orientation.  Our buddy bravo is trying to make the case that pedophilia and homosexuality should BOTH be considered orientations.

Not true if that is his case, homosexuality has basically always been considered a sexual orientation because...well...it's what a sexual orientation is. It's just been considered a wrong/terrible/sinful orientation because people are stupid. If anyone considered it a paraphilia then they are dumb. The main reason why homosexuality can't be a paraphilia is because homosexuality is not based around a non-consenting person (that is just rape if a guy has sex with a non-consenting guy) and the urges/fantasies/behaviors do not cause distress or interpersonal difficulty with the other person involved (unless if it is rape).
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pedos are fucking sick and should be pounded into the ground, not a fake post, hope this helps.
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Pedophilia should be considered a disorder if you disregard the semantic psychobabble and approach things from a more pragmatic point of view.  I think that the one thing everyone can agree upon is that it is a despicable practice that deserves absolutely no form of encouragement from anyone.  It is something that is not socially acceptable under any circumstances and is punishable by law for very good reason.  Therefore, why not treat it as a disorder? 

The one thing that I think is utterly ridiculous about this thread is the idea that pedophilia should be accepted as a sexual orientation.  I don't know what your personal definition of that phrase is and it doesn't really matter in the first place, but society warming up to the idea of child RAPE (i.e. pedophilia) would have lots of negative repercussions that are a bit too depraved to even mention.

Sexual orientation is something that is developed over time.  It's not something that BAM!  you just get it one day when you're four years old and now all of a sudden you're cool to go out and have consensual sex with someone 24 years older than you.  Most kids can't even pronounce "orientation," much less understand what it means and make an informed decision about it.  And also let's not forget the fact that lots of children look to adults as authority figures and will eventually buckle under enough pressure from someone they see as being empowered. 

Why don't you go read up on how interesting it is when people fuck COWS or something?  This discussion will probably go nowhere and I doubt many people will have the patience to hold your hand and explain fundamental truths about existence to you that you should already know.
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I didn't read the entire post.

As far as I'm aware, it's not entirely sure whether homosexuality and pedophilia are similar. That's because it's unknown what exactly causes either of them. For example, there seems to be a correlation between being abused as a child and exhibiting pedophilia later on in life, whereas there exists no similar correlation for homosexuality. For example, children that are raised by a homosexual couple don't seem to have a higher chance of turning out homosexual themselves. (However, it's also likely that the former example is caused by some other disorder, such as PTSD or BPD.)

One explanation I once heard is that the brain prematurely ceases or "skips" an important development that makes the individual be attracted to mature people.

You'd say, from some point of view, that since homosexuality and pedophilia both deal with sexual preference, they're likely to stem from a similar source, but I don't think that's the case. But it probably will take a while before we figure that out because of how difficult it is to accurately analyze the brain's function.

I think ASE should reply here since he's probably the only one with an educated answer.

I think that the one thing everyone can agree upon is that it is a despicable practice that deserves absolutely no form of encouragement from anyone.  It is something that is not socially acceptable under any circumstances and is punishable by law for very good reason.
By the way, I'm sure everyone knows this, but there's a difference between being a pedophile and acting upon the urge. Whenever this topic comes up, people are all too eager to speak their mind about how we should persecute pedophiles, but we kind of know those things by now. It's much more interesting to just set aside that discussion for a while and discuss the actual disorder.
Last Edit: August 11, 2008, 04:52:23 pm by Dada
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what the hell

I tried to write a post but Bled's right, I don't have the patience for something like this. just because it's SEXUAL doesn't mean it should be treated as anything but a horrible mental disorder! what a weird concept.
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I think ASE should reply here since he's probably the only one with an educated answer.
haha what??? I don't recall ever being GW's resident neurologist or mental disorder specialist! Perhaps you are confusing me with 4DSheep or maybe Lord Kamina (or whatever Chilean it was that has a bio degree).

oh, unless you were referencing "asexual entrepreneur" ...

As for the topic at hand, I think it's ridiculous to think that pedophilia will ever take the place of homosexuality as THE taboo that is misunderstood by a great percentage of the world's population. Homosexuality was and is misunderstood and hated mostly due to religious beliefs and because of people who refuse to back down from the idea that reproduction is the only possible end of sexuality. With pedophilia, there is a universally non-subjective agreement that sexually abusing, hurting, or imagining the abuse of  children under the age of consent is disgusting, selfish, and unhealthy.
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non-subjective?

i thought pedophilia has been and still is accepted in some cultures?? even IN THE WEST there are backwater places that dont really care. although arguably, ephebophilia is often misinterpreted as pedophilia idk.

but yeah i have no idea how you can call it a universally non-subjective agreement because it really isnt.
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I think that pedophilia is very similar to being black or having red hair.
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Given that children aren't physically or mentally fully developed to any degree and they're not fit to give consent, pedophilia is fucking terrible.

the end
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pedophiles aren't people.
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Why would you want to lessen the impact of the term used when referring to pedophilia?
Is there really a big difference between "fetish" paraphilia and "sexual orientation"? Isn't the latter just an euphemism of the former because it is relatively much more common, wide spread and accepted?

I see that what you mean is, the WRONG part of pedophilia is the RAPE part, not the fetish paraphilia in itself, because while raping someone is a conscious choice from the rapist to do something despicable to an unwilling victim, the URGE to do it brought by the unfortunate fetish paraphilia in itself is not a choice, just like how homosexuality or having any kind of sexual fetish paraphilia or preference or taste are not choices. Where there is no choice, there cannot be "right" or "wrong". I understand that. Okay. BBBUT...

BUT this goes for all other sexual deviations and fetishes paraphilias, so why would you want to make euphemisms for pedophilia specifically? Pedophilia is actually WORSE than pretty much all other fetishesparaphilias out there! Like, take coprophilia (scat) where people are aroused at the idea of having sex with shit (or eating it?). That might be a very disgusting fetishparaphilia, but its still between two consenting adults and does not involve rape in itself, while pedophillia is ALWAYS RAPE when performed in real life no matter the circumstances (children not being in age to control a relationship and being easy to manipulate since they view adults as role models, ETC).

So if you are going to make euphemisms about pedophilia, why not with coprophilia too? Might as well replace all other terms used for sexual fetishesparaphilia and call everything an orientation? But wouldn't that pretty much make all these terms pointless? A distinction between homosexuality and sexual fetishesparaphilia is important, giving how common and accepted homosexuality is compared to them. I don't see a need to make such a distinction with pedophilia.

EDIT: I replaced the... offending terms... by the correct one...
Last Edit: August 11, 2008, 07:20:48 pm by Frankie
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Man, what?  Sexual orientation does not mean the same thing as fetish.  Are you serious?
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Well if we are DISCUSSING SWITCHING TERMS, like if its like the term used depends on OPINION and POINT OF VIEW, then yes it does mean sexual orientation is just an euphemism for fetish.

If there is a real fundamental difference, then it means we shouldn't have this discussion at all, because then they are CATEGORIES BASED ON FACT and our opinions about it are irrelevant!
(If that's the case id like to know what that fundamental difference is though, I just don't know about it, anyone here is knowledgeable in this?)
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Is there really a big difference between "fetish" and "sexual orientation"? Isn't the latter just an euphemism of the former because it is relatively much more common, wide spread and accepted?

Yes there is, no it isn't just a euphemism.

Sexual orientation is "the gender of what you are sexually attracted to or not sexually attracted to based on gender."
Fetish is "any object or nongenital part of the body that causes a habitual erotic response or fixation."


There is a pretty big difference there, bud!
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Ah, so pedophilia isn't a fetish either? I just used the wrong term in the post? What would the right term be? I thought fetish just meant, something someone sees as sexual that isnt typically by most people, not something as specific as "OBJECT OR PART OF BODY"
Last Edit: August 11, 2008, 07:03:46 pm by Frankie
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