Topic: Changes: Forum and mainsite (Read 7742 times)

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...

Well, I guess I was expecting this ever since ASE admin'd Drule. I would have liked to have been sent a PM or something because just being kicked out without notice isn't so heartwarming. I probably deserve it (with me not being around much and having to work most of the time), but I still care about what's left of the game developing community here, and I would have liked to have some input in it, but I guess I'm just gonna be kept in the dark. I'll probably continue to lurk on GW but it looks like the game making side of things has been almost killed off. Hopefully not but time will tell. I'll be on boardgamegeek.com (where I happened to come into contact with DP :D​) if anyone wants to find me.

On a positive note, these pips look better with my avatar.

I like you so this makes me sad because it makes you sad... :(

Also, holy jeebus all (most of) the forums are gone! Will some of them be coming back in some sort of capacity?

Finally, I miss being pink...
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since the art forum is now a giant clusterfuck we should limit it to three tags (art, lit, music) so sorting can actually be useful

and annime, no wait maybe we could make a separate subforum for anime and a pips forum :fogetsmile:

I hope you can balance running Astrojone and gw
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Dude, you demodded UPRC, Ocean and deadmined Matuei. That's just fucked up. I'm serious, everytime I think someone's actually starting to do a decent job as admin/mod, someone comes out of nowhere and pulls the fucking rug out from under GW. I'm with UPRC with this, some stability would be nice. We went from crappy blog, to decent site, and now back to crappy blog again.

And seriously, if we get colors back for premiums again, can we have better colors rather than dandylion, teal and vomit?
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He demodded everybody.
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Yeah, and that's meant to be temporary. I thought it was great timing personally, I have a bunch of projects due this week. I can still do stuff around the game making section without being a mod too.

I guess I'm too laidback or something as change like this rarely bothers me. Hopefully this version of the site will be able to stay up and be active for a while.
Last Edit: July 08, 2009, 04:46:15 am by Ocean's Dream
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holy shit my cunny is in a knot whatever will I do

oh wait I'll come to gw and bitch because its hopefully not about making shitty little rpgs anymore
DEUCE: MEETING THE URINE UP CLOSE AND PERSONAL AND REALIZING IT'S JUST LIKE ME AND MY PREJUDICES  THIS WHOLE TIME WERE COMPLETELY FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF PTTTTHTHTHH GOD IT'S EVERYWHERE<br />DEUCE: FUCK THIS TASTES LIKE PISS<br />PANTS: WHERE IT SHOULD TASTE LIKE COTTON CANDY OR PICKLES<br />DEUCE: OR AT LEAST LIKE URINE NOT PISS
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I think Drule is doing the right thing, you people just don't like ANY CHANGE AT ALL. He told you to wait and see what happens so maybe do that before jumping to conclusions and complaining. GW IS STILL GOING TO BE ABOUT GAMES SO RELAX.
Yeah, seriously. You guys need to smoke some :ganja: and chill for a bit. The mainsite is obviously Under Construction, but I'd still rather drink a gallon of concentrated acid than look at the same featured articles that were on the GW mainsite for the past 4 months again.

It was just another fucking reminder of how incredibly lazy and unmotivated our previous like 15 STAFFERS were and how despite all the sweat, sleepless nights, and weeks of coding that GZ and others spent to try and revitalize the gaming community here, no one was the least bit reciprocal. Almost no one posted resources, most staffers just DISAPPEARED/gave up their job duties after the first week or two, and almost no one posted any guest articles (although to be fair, there was no specific guest submission system coded yet, but we DID say that guest articles were welcome to be PM'ed or posted on the forums )

Drule might disagree, but if you ask me the main THEME behind the new GW is "low-maintenance." I think everyone in the past and present administration and staff is disgusted with how much work the previous coders and designers put into the past couple of attempts at revitalizing GW in comparison to what GOOD came out of it: zilch.

GW is still going to be about indie games and game-making. Whoever has been posting otherwise is pulling shit out of their ass and should stop. That being said, most members realize that GW is more than just about GAMES, and so we're trying to broaden the spectrum to general GAME DEV as well as CREATIVITY. We've got plenty of members who are interested in music creation, film, art, photography, web design, programming, and more.

Some people like WIP are obviously a BETTER FIT at a community like RMN where the main focus is RPGMaker. As many other members have stated in this thread and the Why did this site die? thread, GW and its members have grown up since its humble beginnings in 2000 or 2001. As our interests expanded, and as our # of active members decreased, compacting the forums became an absolute necessity. It is highly unprofessional and quite pointless to have 25 subforums when we barely have 25 active members online during the day.

Soon we will need to start attracting new members through the articles that are posted on the blog, the indie games-news that our staffers post, and maybe through some youtube videos or podcasts that we can hopefully begin producing in the future. We can't do this unless our forums reflect back with the same professionalism (although we can still maintain our trademark FUN, IRONIC GW style through our members' posts)
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This is probably still up in the air and all but will there be a new "DO YOU WANT TO BE STAFFER" call?
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I'm with ASE and others, stop the bitching, seriously. Drule is probably the best choice for admin right now, he's motivated and getting things done and that's exactly what GW needs now, without all the bureaucracy. Before I quit my job as an admin, the main problem was that we wanted GW to be more than it probably could, there were no one who could make it work (or had the time to) plus there was just too much talking and not much got done. The blog we had up in 2008 was a step in the right direction but admittedly, it didn't work out that well for two reasons. One, we didn't have any quality control for it and it's true that there were some pretty bad articles there. I was actually hoping that people would have posted more articles like freeware fridays, maybe done some album reviews or just, you know, written articles or posted news about interesting new releases, be it albums, games or movies, whatever. It would have been fine to just get some discussion going with news instead of only writing long articles. And that brings me to my second reason, which would be the lack of communication and motivation on the administration's part. I feel that the mentality we had was that we wanted to get a temp blog running and then we'd just let it be, let staffers work on content and hopefully focus on GW6. However, that was wrong, and we should have communicated more with staff, actively improved the blog and not just almost completely ignored it like we did. Saying that we wanted to focus on GW6 would be an excuse because it wasn't just that. I know that part of the reason was that we just didn't have enough time and motivation to really put our all into improving GW. We spent too much time arguing and talking about useless shit on the forums instead of focusing on what really mattered.

I resigned because I felt that I didn't want to spend the little free time I have nowadays on GW. The lack of motivation came from the lack of time and when I realized it wouldn't change, that I wouldn't REALLY get things done, I quit. Now, what comes to Mateui, I have to say he should have done the same thing long time ago. He cares for the site, I do too, and he wants to see the community do well again but the simple fact is that he's way too inactive, way too unmotivated to be an admin. I'm sure Mateui believes he's motivated, I think I am too, but when you look at how GW has deteriorated in the past years, how the community has grown smaller and maybe even more indifferent, you have to accept the facts. If we REALLY wanted to get things done, we would have. If we REALLY put our effort into it, GW wouldn't be facing the situation it is facing now, we would have gotten over our unrealistic plans for GW6, we would have realized that blaming everything on a lack of coder or code not getting done is also our fault because we didn't do anything about it. We just waited. Of course, looking back when I was still an admin, I still think there were other factors and sometimes the community really didn't help at all. So much complaining about the smallest things, so much pointless arguing and too much spending time in the site feedback to shut people up. And if you didn't do that, the next moment you'd be hearing comments that admins don't ever read site feedback or listen to members and blah blah blah.

But anyway, my point is that I greatly care about GW and if I ever get the time, I wish to make it a better place and help out somehow but it's the right decision to step down when you simply don't or can't get things done. I was in army, got a job, started studying in university and work at the same time and I also want to hang out with my friends among other stuff so it was obvious I couldn't provide what GW needed. Drule on the other hand is getting shit done, works hard and doesn't worry about what others might think and just does what he thinks needs to be done. He could and probably should have sent Mateui a PM since deadmining someone with equal status just like that isn't right (especially when you're a new admin) but that wouldn't have changed the outcome.

I look forward to the new blog and I also agree that leaving behind game development would be a wrong move. There's still interest on GW and anyone who doesn't realize that is dumb. There's still a fair amount of people here who work on their own games and even those who haved moved on have interest in game development. I like checking out other people's games, I read about new indie games and it's the same for many others, gaming is a pretty big thing here on GW. What ASE said is right, we just need to branch out more and hopefully the blog will work out this time around. I'm not sure what Drule and ASE have in mind but I think it'd be great if the blog wasn't just about game development, indie games (or gaming in general) and creative content by our users but also about music, art, politics, interesting shiz and such in general. But we'll see, so everyone stop whining and just wait and see. This is what GW needs.

Also I like the new compact forums, good job with that.
Last Edit: July 08, 2009, 07:59:44 am by DragonSlayer
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I'm not sure what Drule and ASE have in mind but I think it'd be great if the blog wasn't just about game development, indie games (or gamign in general) and creative content by our users but also about music, art, politics, interesting shiz and such in general. But we'll see, so everyone stop whining and just wait and see. This is what GW needs.
No complaints from me, but I sure hope that we don't see "here is <name of country>, let me tell you about it!" articles again.
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No complaints from me, but I sure hope that we don't see "here is <name of country>, let me tell you about it!" articles again.
yeah i know, this is exactly what i mean. okay, articles like that probably were interesting to some but yeah, i wouldn't want to see stuff like that on the blog again.
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i think there wouldn't be concern if there was some formal explanation of "the plan". i don't believe i have seen this anywhere.

kudos that you're taking the initiative, but you'd be crazy to think everyone is going to be thumbs up to mucking around with things without giving an explanation of why all these decisions are being made. this is a problem we've had many times before and is unquestionably going to happen again if you guys don't go out of your way to make your intentions known and communicate the changes with the community. from our perspective the changes look arbitrary and random and without much regard to what the community's opinion of the shift is.

and i don't want anybody jumping down my throat thinking i'm against this change, because i've always been a proponent of actively expanding the focus of the community to fit the diverse nature of it. i believe i was one of the first people to suggest this, if not the first. i just want you guys to know that communication is essential in this process if you want to maintain the current people who still think enough of the community to remain here. inexplicably firing people without any sort of explanation, for example, is absolutely not the way to do this and will do nothing but alienate what's left of the community.

so yeah, just talk to us about this. we really have no idea what the hell you guys are up to.
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I guess you gotta respect your userbase somewhat or they'll remove the GW icon from their bookmarks bar and visit other places instead.
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Yeah, that's basically what I was getting at yesterday. I may have worded what I said in a way that irked Drule a bit, which wasn't intentional or anything.

I wasn't upset or anything of the sort, just confused and looking for answers. I still am, but I'm just not going to be as vocal about it. I didn't look in the staff forum for a few days (excusable, since nothing ever really goes on in there) so that's why I may have missed whatever was discussed regarding this whole change.

And since I missed it, that's why I would like to be informed now, along with the rest of GW, because... Hey, it would just be nice to know what's happening to GW in the next few days or whatever. Even just a topic in general that reads something like "Hey guys, today I am doing "this" and "that" to GW! If you have any questions or complaints about the planned changes, voice them in here."

This topic kind of seems to serve as the place to voice our questions and complaints now, but when we don't even know what direction things are really going in and are not allowed to know (apparently) then, well, what is the general userbase of GW supposed to say or do? The userbase is what makes the site what it is and they are the ones who keep the numbers (visits, posts, new members) going up so it just seems silly to alienate the userbase from the changes which are, from what I understand, being discussed in secret.

From my time as GW mod/staffer, I know that things were always discussed in secret prior[/i] to being implemented and not during the implementation process.

I think that it's a bit messy how things are going because the communication isn't really there (as Hundley said). Things are just sort of happening and being forced onto the community with no explanation.

Things that happened unexpectedly:
  • Many old posts were archived but still visible. When a few members found out that they were still visible, they were made unavailable to us. Drule says that he'll bring back any topics we want from those archived forums, but how are we, the readers of GW, supposed to know what is worthy of coming back without viewing the archived forums?
  • All moderators and one administrator were removed suddenly. We (the ones removed from our positions) only received a PM basically saying "sit tight dudes, we are discussing forum and site issues and we don't want you to see" and that was that. Well with all of the forum changes, how many moderators will be or won't be coming back? What's even going on with this? I'm not riled up over losing my moderator status or anything because I intend on helping GW however I can even if I don't return as a mod. What concerns me about this point is how it was just very sudden with no PM warning ahead of time. A day's notice or two would have been better, because it would have given us an opportunity to get things out of the forums that are now archived, as well as a few other little maintenance items. This would have also reduced Drule's current work load as well.
  • The main site suddenly became a blog again. This is not a bad thing at all and I am interested in seeing how this develops because blog sites are pretty cool, but I think that GW as a whole would benefit from an administrator posting what we can expect to see on the blog and how it will operate. Basically a "What is GW going to be?" sort of topic would be great, I think. It would also be nice if we could just chill out for a bit with introducing new main sites because, hell, even Bart hopes that this is the last one for a while.
  • Yet another forum reshuffle confuses the way GW looks. Another reshuffle just hurts GW's identity even more because it seems like every member who gets promoted to administrator feels the need to rearrange how the forum index looks. Sometimes it is necessary, sometimes not. It gives off an image that GW does not know what it wants out of itself, though. This new compact rearrangement isn't too bad and I don't mind it. I'm really hoping that it stays this way for a long while.

Also I just want to reiterate the fact that I'm not trying to negative, because it's just the opposite. I'm not against Drule, not sour over losing my status, I am in favour of change at GW, etc, etc, etc.... These are the things I've observed and, as someone who likes GW and enjoys posting here, feel that it does not hurt to post them. All comments, complaints, and criticisms (which I will refer to as CC&C) on the redesign should be welcomed by the administration. They do not have to be answered or acknowledged by the administration and ASE or Drule can even flat out ignore them if they want, but CC&C should not be discouraged or responded to negatively.

Basically, I'm just hoping for better communication. That's the gist of what my post is about.


(This post actually ended up being MUCH longer than I expected, sorry.)
Last Edit: July 08, 2009, 11:08:18 am by UPRC
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kudos that you're taking the initiative, but you'd be crazy to think everyone is going to be thumbs up to mucking around with things without giving an explanation of why all these decisions are being made. this is a problem we've had many times before and is unquestionably going to happen again if you guys don't go out of your way to make your intentions known and communicate the changes with the community. from our perspective the changes look arbitrary and random and without much regard to what the community's opinion of the shift is.
I would if I thought it would be constructive, but it will just lead to a lot of unecessary debating, dissecting, complaining and overanalyzing. It's gotten to a point where even the smallest change will lead to people churning out post after post on GW politics as if they've been sitting around just waiting for any chance to let loose their incredible insight on what needs to be done, and in the end we will have a 10 page discussion leading nowhere.

This is going to work out great I think, and very soon the direction will become clear and pieces will fall into place. At that point there will be a lot of time for ideas and suggestions.

stuff
Stop making these ridiculous posts everywhere.
Last Edit: July 08, 2009, 10:52:47 am by Drule
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Drule, I'm really only going into the subject in here and the "what's going on?" topic. I'd trying to only voice my concerns in this topic as well, so yeah..

Can you tell me why my posts are ridiculous? I'm not trying to be ridiculous. It's not like I am trying to upset the administration or cause grief. I like GW and my posts are pretty much just me wanting (hoping?) to know what's going on and what's happening. Heck, that post that you just completely erased in your quote was mostly just full of concerns and semi-suggestions. It's not like it was an angry rant or anything, so I don't understand the response.

But yeah, it would be cool if you'd reply to me with more than just...
"don't care what you think"
"stop posting everywhere"
"you're being ridiculous"
... and would actually address the things I say or at least not come off the way you currently are. My posts are hardly upsetting anything so I don't know why you're so defensive over the things I post since it isn't like I am making accusations or screaming "DOWN WITH DRULE!" or anything of that nature.

I like GW and I am for change, and I'm not against anything that has happened thus far, so what's up?


Come on... D-Drule... Man.... Bond with me...  :fogetsad:
Last Edit: July 08, 2009, 11:18:09 am by UPRC
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Stop making these ridiculous posts everywhere.
:sad: Drule, you have so much time and energy to be moving topics from the archive to the current forums, yet you intentionally ignore providing us with any sort of concrete information about where we're headed as a community. I don't buy your reasoning about you not wanting a 10-page discussion from it. What does it matter if it happens now versus later? It's going to happen and by delaying it you're just letting people's attitudes fester. I think a lot of us would be put at ease if we knew what was going on instead of being suddenly kicked to the curb and put in the dark. I think we all deserve better than this. Myself especially. You know, if you would have sent me a PM outlining your intentions and asking me to either step up or step down, I would have been able to make an informed decision about what to do. Likely I would have stepped down willingly and addressed the community about the upcoming changes. But you didn't have the courtesy to allow me to do that. Instead I'm left feeling like a certain character from Animal Farm...
Last Edit: July 08, 2009, 11:36:38 am by Mateui
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Animal Farm was an awesome book. I think I still have a copy of that laying around somewhere that I forgot to give back to my school during junior high.
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Animal Farm was an awesome book. I think I still have a copy of that laying around somewhere that I forgot to give back to my school during junior high.
I'm playing a sheep in a stage version of that book at the moment. Everyone come watch.


I probably have opinions about what's happening too but I doubt I'll voice them.
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I would if I thought it would be constructive, but it will just lead to a lot of unecessary debating, dissecting, complaining and overanalyzing. It's gotten to a point where even the smallest change will lead to people churning out post after post on GW politics as if they've been sitting around just waiting for any chance to let loose their incredible insight on what needs to be done, and in the end we will have a 10 page discussion leading nowhere.
this is problematic. if people have an issue with the way you're doing it, don't you think it would be wise to gauge that first, at least to SOME extent? this isn't a new website, but one(i would imagine) is based off of our current community. might just be me, but i'd imagine getting SOME input on this matter from the general populace would have been important. you could have definitely delivered this in a way where you would still have final say, but everyone would be able to contribute their input. doesn't even mean you'd have to take any of it, but at least you'd know you were doing something most everybody would stand behind. simply running off and saying I KNOW BEST does not appear to fill most people with much confidence. it appears as though you don't really give a shit about what any of us thinks, which makes me wonder why any of us should give a shit about where you want to take the community.

also this doesn't justify how badly you've communicated these changes to us. no matter what you do with the site, this is OUR community, not YOUR website. the way you've handled this matter clearly makes quite a few of us worried that you've lost sight of that. doesn't mean that it's necessarily true, but you really do not want to continue alienating the members of the forum if you expect them to welcome what you want to do with it. nobody is obligated to back you because you're willing to put the time in to make necessary changes. impeal was proof of that.

you're better of locking/deleting this topic and making a locked sticky with a basic rundown of your intentions, with the note that we can discuss it after the foundation has been established. this topic really serves no purpose other than to clarify that we will not have a say in the future of this community.

Quote
as if they've been sitting around just waiting for any chance to let loose their incredible insight on what needs to be done
kinda funny you phrased it in such a sarcastic way. isn't this exactly what you're doing right now?