Topic: What steps should I take when creating an RPG? (Read 740 times)

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On my other projects I would simply jump to other locations. At first i'll be messing with the battle system then next thing you know, i'm gathering sprites. What would be recommended steps I can try?
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- brainstorm ideas and don't stop at the first one, stop once you have at least 10 different ideas
- make a concept based on your brainstorms, combine some things
- create a planning, when you're going to do what and how much time you're going to spend
- if you're working in a team create a gamedesign document
- write out the script for the story, or at least write out a very detailed story so you never have to make things up
- if you're using custom resources, create them (graphics, music) use your planning to know when to do what
- by now you should have drawings of the most important areas, or at least sketches, use these to start mapping
- make events for the concepts you came up with

i think that's about it. i may have forgotten a detail or two but i think this is the general idea
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if you're working in a team create a gamedesign document

no, do this anyway
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Right. Since many RPGs are plot-based, it would seem a god idea to lay out things before hand, at least to a point.
Lay out a back story if possible and figure out how it affects the plot.
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Complete it. ha ha.

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if you are asking a question like this, you should probably do small scale projects to get experience that will help you understand the process better. i would say there are general guidelines that can be applied when making an rpg, but i think it's a little different for everyone. you need to understand how you work creatively first. doing smaller, manageable projects will prepare you for bigger projects and naturally teach you the workflow.

you could get more help if you posted with more detail what you are trying to do, problems you had in previous projects, and anything related. there is only so much advice you can give to a general question like "where to start in rpgs?"
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At least try to avoid what I should do, not to start your name with Dark/Light, yes of course, because pretty much nearly every rpg is about good and evil.
Current RPG Making Projects:
 
Main projects: Eternia's Promise, demo out on rpgmaker.net
 
Desperation Of A New Era. Prolouges out, Part 1 out. Finally a game that I can
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Story of Ligara: Dead. Again.
 
 

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I try to think of every piece of the game as a system that needs to be designed, planned and implemented. Each system needs to be introduced at a particular point in development and needs to be completed in it's entirety before I can move on to the next system (the most difficult thing here is patience as it does take some of the fun out of designing a game.)

So what "systems" does an RPG need?

Let's look at game mechanics first:

Menu system: Customized? Will you need images, etc? Draw up a basic layout of what you want to see in the menu. If you plan on having a Quest Log, an Action Battle System or a unique inventory system, then you might as well customize your menu. Will it include a stat screen? What else will it have. Again, draw up a basic design of what you want as this may change as you figure out what you want in other systems (in which case, the menu might not be the first thing you develop.)

Battle System: This has several steps or sub-systems as I like to call them. Everything from monster development to battle animations to monster stats coupled with equipment stats. If it's an action battle system then there is a lot more to consider when it comes to programming.

Now if you are starting development from the above stages, planning around game mechanics, then you are probably trying to bring something unique to the table in regards to game play. Chances are you got a real good idea for a battle system first and then decided to make a game around it. If this is the case then design, implement and play test the crap out of that battle system before moving on to any other steps. Have it perfected. If it's an action system chances are there are events that need to be on every map, thus programming this first is essential to saving time as you can then copy a blank map with the events already on them to save hours of your time. This is not the approach I take...

If you are making a traditional RPG using one of the RPGMakers and you intend to use default menu/battle system, then I suggest the following...

Build a world map. If you haven't completed a game before then start small, 100x100 or 200x200 or so for your whole world. Fill this in with detail and really think about where your towns and other objectives are being placed. What order will the player be reaching these places, if any (non-linear). Have your world map perfected? Excellent...

Now there are two ways I see to proceed. The first (and unfortunately the way I choose) is to map out the entire game. Get ALL the mapping out of the way with the exception of possibly a few special quest locations that you may plan on later. Map the cities, map the interiors, map your caves, map until you hate mapping (I hate mapping.) Good, now STOP MAPPING AND MOVE ON. Again, the trick is to complete an entire "system" before moving on. Mapping is a system. If you map one town now, then spend 6 months developing other parts of your game, then you go back to mapping, you might start mapping in another style, or you might decide your first town is too dull, etc. This makes you jump around a lot. FOCUS. Get the mapping done first. It's frustrating, but you can do it. Something that helps is to plan to make the game expandable LATER. For instance, make a city so big now, then when you complete the game you may wish to add maps to that city to make it larger. Perhaps you'll add whole other towns in expansions. Keep it under your control to start though. Plan what you are mapping out ahead of time and stick to that mapping plan. I added blank maps organized by region, city, interior with everything named before I actually started making the maps. This way I just had to fill in the blanks. It's like a personal progress bar on the side. :)

If you don't want to jump right to mapping the other way to go is to really flush out your world (I recommend this way). After making your world map write a whole bunch of history for each location and the world itself. Design the religion, the politics, previous wars, current events (is there a war brewing? noooo... in an RPG? wowzers), etc. Develop some dialog for the NPC's, specific to each location. In city one perhaps people are really concerned about the King having a bad hair day and this may somehow result in taxes being raised. In another city people might be really chillaxed and not give a crap, even though they are facing impending doom. For a real approach create a ton of dialog and implement it in common events so that it's easy to give to multiple NPC's while maintaining variety. Maybe there are 20 things an NPC in city 1 might say about religion. Well, make an event that allows you to ask about religion and then have a variable choose 1-20 with a different phrase in each. Random every time. Summary: History, dialog, general interest in each region (what will city one include? a library, boat launch, castle, casino, mostly houses, etc?) Why will the player want/need to visit each location? If there is no reason to visit, there is no reason to have the location. What is unique about each location? Basing cities around the real world adds uniqueness believe it or not. Perhaps one city will have waterways instead of roads (Venice), be high up in the trees (Amazon), be western, industrial, etc etc. Plan the hell out of your world. Once you do this coming up with ideas for quests is REALLY easy. So easy in fact that you should have a file open while designing your world to put in quest ideas as you go, as they will come naturally. The next step is naturally to fill in your quest ideas. From here your game is essentially planned. All that's left is the work (boo). You need to program in the systems to fit with the design you've come up with. Again, mapping is a great way to start if you're using default systems. It's pretty difficult to implement quests if you don't have any maps or NPC's. Take logical steps.


WHAT NOT TO DO:

Make map 1 a house you start in, place your start spot. Add an NPC that welcomes you with some bullshit undeveloped story of what is wrong with the world and how you are an unlikely hero, but still need to fix it all anyway. Have him give you a sword and a smile and say good luck. Then add music to the map and fill in some overlay. Then start adding party members and making your first monster battle. Then go back to the room an add a book that gives you a fire ball spell so you can test magic on your monster. Then make a map of the around around your house and put a barrel next to your door with a wooden shield in it. Then program a plant that gives you an ingredient you just made up because you suddenly decided alchemy would be fun to have.

Don't do that.

Basically there are tons of ways to make a game, few of them successful, none of them successful without planning. Plan and stick to that plan, whatever order you want to do it in. Perhaps you can work on two unrelated portions of the game at once so it doesn't get too tedious. For example, I map for a while and when mapping pisses me off too much I do some quest ideas. By the time mapping is finished I have 50 quests to implement (not a daunting task at all).
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 - Come up with a setting, atmosphere and feeling that you'd like the game to convey.
 - Write a story around it.
 - Condense the story to the size you're comfortable making a game out of.
 - Write a design doc outlining everything that's going to be required, along with an ETA of how long everything will take you to complete, including the graphics and resources.
 - Rewrite the story and design doc according to the changes you will want to make when realizing that certain things will take too long to finish.
 - Start programming the game using placeholder graphics.
 - Make some graphics and music.
 - Finish the game.

You're going to start doubting yourself and your project at several points, but with some determination you'll be able to finish it.

Also if you've never actually finished a game before, you better start out small! If you're dead set on making an RPG it's better to keep it a short, 10-quest test game rather than a full-scale adventure.

Good luck!
Last Edit: November 12, 2010, 05:33:43 pm by Bald Coworker
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*topic full of good info*

Motivation is one of my biggest weaknesses as well lol. I know how to use rm2k3 so well too :/
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top ten mistakes noobs do with rm2k/3 10. Beginners attempt to make a Pokemon/Digimon game…  …as their first game. They do not know how much work is needed to be done to even make a Pokemon or Digimon game. The shear fact that there are dynamic characters “joining” your party from time to time is already difficult enough. Making all of that work with “evolutions” and having them behave properly after that is even more difficult. Let’s not forget there are hundreds of different types of Pokemon and Digimon out there. Making them all would be a nightmare and making them all work is even more tedious. Getting it to work like a Pokemon/Digimon game is just downright impossible without scripts, too. And let’s face it, if there’s a script out there that allows the creation of these games, it’ll be confusing as ever to use, especially for a beginner.  9. Beginners try to sell their games as commercial…  …without realizing how to even make their game. Beginners announce demos for their games, include all of these selling points and special features, without even realizing that half of them aren’t features (example: incredible graphics, caterpillar system, etc). These demos are hardly complete, encompass not even 1% of the game they expect it to have, and from that, they expect it to be wonderful. They also use demos to showcase what their progress instead of using them to create hype for their games. They fail to realize that demos exist to give their audience a taste of what the expect, rather than to show what they’ve already (only) made.  8. Beginners will make the final battle…  …before everything else. This is before beginners have designed and completed their database, balanced everything in their game properly, and made sure all final aspects of their battle systems are done. Making the boss battle comes way before all of that. This will generally result in the beginner recreating the final boss battle over and over again through each change they make in their database. They will go through times where the final boss is just way too weak compared to the strength of equipment for a final level party. Most of the time, they’ll just give up on balancing the boss and just give it 999,999 HP and MP and 999 for all stats. Problem solved, right? Not really.  7. Beginners want to add in mini-games…  …without getting their base game done. For some reason, everybody wants a fishing mini-game, mining mini-game, herb growing mini-gaming, and card collecting mini-game. They want all of this before getting everything else set in their projects. Most of the time, this is before the beginners even know how events work so they have no idea where to even start on those fishing mini-games and such. Yet, the beginner will not continue progress on their game until these things are done for whatever reason. Mini-games are apparently more important than the main gameplay provided to the player…  6. Beginners don’t ever play any RPG Maker games…  …other than their own. Thus, the beginner makes an extremely narrow-minded game without any techniques learned from other RPG Maker games (especially the open source ones). And as they further progress in making their own game, their ego also tends to grow larger and larger thinking that their game is the only one worth playing and paying any attention to. In the event that the beginner actually gets as far as completing their game, it ends up receiving horrible reviews, and the beginner can only help but to wonder why.  5. Beginners try to force things to work…  …without figuring out what the problems they’re having are. When there are user created errors such as bad installment of scripts, events, or database errors, the players will blame the program for doing something wrong instead of themselves. They will then try to seek help for these problems without being able to explain why it might have even happened at all. Even worse, they’ll believe that scripts are the cure-all for all problems created by them (but they don’t know that last part). What they fail to realize is that by forcing these things to work, other parts of the game will break and they’ll repeat the whole process over again until there is practically nothing left as playable.  4. Beginners add scripts…  …for the sake of adding scripts. Or even knowing how to use them. They take a look at the scripts, see pretty screenshots, and add them immediately without even trying to read the instructions. Then, when they have no idea how to get something to work, they immediately prompt to question the creator about how to do it. They do not go back to the instructions where they would find the answers reasonably faster than waiting for the creator to respond to them (if the creator even bothers to respond to them at all). Even worse, the beginners add all these scripts without realizing that some of them are incompatible with others and they wonder why their game breaks and caves inward.  3. Beginners try to make custom resources…  …before understanding how resources work. Or even how to get them to look well together. They attempt to make custom faces and such without learning the dimensions, insert game sprites from commercial games (and then try to sell their own games, too, go figure…), and add tilesets without even understanding how these resources are imported into the program. They suddenly learn how hard it is to make the custom resources and then ask for help without even trying to figure out how to get the resources working.  2. Beginners attempt to be too fancy with their battle system…  …or anything really. Especially for their first game. Without trying to learn the basics, the beginners attempt to create their own battle systems, their own MP systems, their own etc systems. All of it without even trying to make a vanilla RPG first. What they don’t realize is that even if they do attempt to create those fancy and custom battle systems, their execution of it will be extremely poor because they do not understand the fundamental basics required to create a decent game. All the extra fancy systems they tack on will have no synergy with each other and the whole game collapses in playability.  1. Beginners try to make a game…  …before learning the program. The very core thing any beginner should do is to understand each and every inch of RPG Maker before attempting to create their game. They need to learn how to create items, open treasure chests, produce events, execute cutscenes, and more. By learning as they go, their first game, which is what they believe to be their dream game, will end up being their nightmare. It becomes very clear to the players that the creator had no idea what they were doing at the start (and probably still have no idea of what they’re doing at the end). With the first game being a failure, the beginner may lose hope in even making another.


 

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Wow, skipped the 2 walls of text.

I'm going to have to disagree with renegade.
Don't even bother worrying with world maps and menus or even battle systems.

First thing: Elevator pitch. In other words, how would you pitch your game to a game exec in an elevator with only 3 seconds? THIS is your main idea. It should be short, sweet, and unique. From here on out, we start working on what should be the main development tool for you: ITERATION. You want to work in a cyclical fashion when you're starting out, you won't be able to build or design whole systems at first, you'll want to start with simple systems and build on those.

Also, don't worry about working on a script or anything like that. Take your elevator pitch and iterate on that, expand it, add complexity as needed. Don't solve questions that no one is asking until you have the core elements done.  So, its an RPG, you have a set of "rules" to work within, and that is great, but you also want to break the mold. Rather than thinking about is as a battle system or a menu system, or whatever, think of how it fits into your idea, and whether or not it is fun.

At this point you want to do your Design Document. There are several templates online. It's a fantastic tool, and it'll help you ask the right questions, and of course, answer them.  The Design Doc will also help you measure the scope of the project to tell whether or not it's a realistic goal, and it will also help you set rules for yourself, so you can always refer back to it.

Up until now, you haven't actually started on the game itself, which is ok, because if you rush into it, it's easy to get frustrated. So where do you actually start? That's up to you, but I would recommend starting with simple movement, interaction, encounters, picking stuff up, etc. Don't worry about actual settings in your story. At this point you're making building blocks that you can place in your story. If you work on iteration, you'll end up with a solid foundation of mechanics, which will give you more freedom in story-telling.
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oh hello you must be a software engineer. probably useful advice but:

1. better to (mentally) pitch your game to people you already like and respect rather than people in suits with cash - if you just want money there's easier fields than games.

2. formal design documentation is maybe harmful as  a first step for hobbist game devs because most of us have serious concentration problems and should realistically have START WORKING DO A THING STOP SLACKING as step one and then write down anything that crucially needs to be remembered. whether or not you can remember your own idea is probably a decent test of how good it is / how carefully you've thought it out anyway. i think that the number of projects that devolve into pointless fantasy about concepts is probably quite high. if you write good code, you can reuse it later when your concepts suck less, and as a general rule initial concepts don't work out.
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I can't say much about actually creating your game, but I'd say the first step has to be coming up with an idea. For me, this is the easy part: I have a lot of ideas, and most of them just get filed away in the back of my mind.

But one idea doesn't make a game. Some people might disagree, but I'd say when you have an idea, just make a note of it and keep it somewhere safe. If it happens to match another idea, stick them together.

For example: "A system where characters learn skills from each other" is an idea, not a game. Then I glanced at it and added the thought: "some (temporary, maybe older) characters might have a lot of starting skills, but are only in the party to teach others". That's still just one idea with a little branch off it, not enough to really work on, so it goes into the file.

Then I have another idea: "Old hero comes out of retirement, but finds that the industry has changed a lot". This was inspired by reading a story about a guy who was in hospital for years, then found that he had to learn a whole new set of skills because his old employer had started using a production line.

Now that one's just a single idea too, but they both work with old people, so they get stuck together.

I think you should keep on until you've got 4 or 5 ideas in a bundle before turning it into a game. If possible, 3 ideas that all connect to each other, making a little loop, will be preferable to 4 in a line.

Before you start with the actual "making", I'd say you should decide on the basics of your world, characters, system etc. So start with your ideas and ask questions. "Why is he retired?", "What's he been doing for all these years?" "Are heroes common? Do people acknowledge their role in society?" "Is there magic?" "What's the tech level?"

If the ideas you have naturally suggest answers, that may be a good omen. If there's more than one possible answer, think about both. If one of them loops back to another idea, or connects to something else in your ideas file, then take it ... a big set of ideas that fit like a jigsaw is a perfect core for your game. As each answer raises more questions, try to answer those too, until you've got a pretty good idea about your world.
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oh hello you must be a software engineer. probably useful advice but:

1. better to (mentally) pitch your game to people you already like and respect rather than people in suits with cash - if you just want money there's easier fields than games.

2. formal design documentation is maybe harmful as  a first step for hobbist game devs because most of us have serious concentration problems and should realistically have START WORKING DO A THING STOP SLACKING as step one and then write down anything that crucially needs to be remembered. whether or not you can remember your own idea is probably a decent test of how good it is / how carefully you've thought it out anyway. i think that the number of projects that devolve into pointless fantasy about concepts is probably quite high. if you write good code, you can reuse it later when your concepts suck less, and as a general rule initial concepts don't work out.

I'm obviously not telling him to go pitch the game to a game exec on an elevator lol. It's a simple concept, and it's used commonly.  The idea is that if you couldn't pitch your idea in that length of time, then it's too complicated or you don't have a solid enough theme.

On the second one: To ANY game designer, the  Design Doc is THE primary tool.  It's bad advice to say "don't make one". At least if he wants to make a good game - hobby or not.

And I'm a game designer, not a software engineer, but I will soon have a technical art degree.
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It's kinda sad that art students are giving out advice for software engineers.

The process I use normally involves not writing down an idea if I think it's good. I'll at least go a couple of weeks before writing it down for two good reasons:

1. If I already know it's a good idea, I already anticipate that I'll be thinking about that idea really often. If I haven't let myself not think about it long enough to forget about it, I can be entirely sure that it's an idea that's worth writing down at the very least.
2. The more I think about something, the more likely I'll want to change things around. If I write it down right after coming up with it, then I'll drive myself crazy opening and editing the document over and over every time I think of something to change or add. The things that I need to put in the document the most will end up being the things I think about most often anyhow, so I can trust how those essential things will be clear in my memory when I finally do get around to writing the whole idea down.

Of course documentation can only give you exactly what you put into it (hint: it's documentation), and as such counts more like a step 0 rather than the actual step 1. (It makes more sense to software engineers to start things at 0)

As to my own experience in an actual game development context, I still I have yet to reach step 1. (Although, I do have that step already well documented. Putting an immediate TO-DO list in a file outside your design document is a task I can't help but wholeheartedly support for ameaturs and professionals alike.)
Last Edit: December 21, 2010, 07:52:18 am by EvilDemonCreature