Topic: TOPIC OF THE WEEK 3 - Masochism in games (Read 2814 times)

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I'm so disappointed that this reached two pages that I'm going to never visit this topic again

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"shake it baby" I said as I pressed space to thrust a low res money into her jiggling bosomy sprite. I am 9 year old Mark and I have duke nuke 3D. "shake it baby".
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ahaha I kind of implied this a couple topics ago because every once in a while sort of SAFARI game with no goals, just a world to explore and series of interesting events comes up, or like Pilotwings 64 where the goals/stages are pretty weakly conceived and everyone probably racked up more playtime just flying around randomly. Or maybe as another suggestion somebody could make an RPG where you're on the world of GUADIA or whatever but there is no horrible boss/satan to defeat and you're just left to your devices to explore and discover towns/people. But this never/rarely happens or is explored to some extent but few people are brave enough to completely remove the evil/conflict of the game and try and make the game still work. I especially like that most RPGs are still this lush sort of world with more of a LOOMING danger (maybe one or two towns have been destroyed by monsters/bad guy of the game)
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ahaha I kind of implied this a couple topics ago because every once in a while sort of SAFARI game with no goals, just a world to explore and series of interesting events comes up, or like Pilotwings 64 where the goals/stages are pretty weakly conceived and everyone probably racked up more playtime just flying around randomly. Or maybe as another suggestion somebody could make an RPG where you're on the world of GUADIA or whatever but there is no horrible boss/satan to defeat and you're just left to your devices to explore and discover towns/people. But this never/rarely happens or is explored to some extent but few people are brave enough to completely remove the evil/conflict of the game and try and make the game still work. I especially like that most RPGs are still this lush sort of world with more of a LOOMING danger (maybe one or two towns have been destroyed by monsters/bad guy of the game)

man i started so many projects like this which was just uh EXPLORATORIUM and there were a few bad guys but no overruling sense of EVIL and the player just played the game and did what the flip they liked (within the boundaries of the limitations of RPG Maker 2000 Of COurse) but yeah i would really love to play a game like that and one that is done pretty well (hell even if it isnt done really well i'd still probably play it)

DERAIL but yeah i just wanted to throw that out there
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I hate talking about things in terms of masochism and sadism or domination and submission and I don't like that it's inaccurately applied to so many things. are we becoming an anime.
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we ARE aminé

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"shake it baby" I said as I pressed space to thrust a low res money into her jiggling bosomy sprite. I am 9 year old Mark and I have duke nuke 3D. "shake it baby".
I posted this because I thought the topic was misogyny in games. Sorry guys.
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Vellfire has swirl glasses and a highpitch anime dub voice.
Meanwhile I drink her breast milk to get super powers. Also I have a long red scarf, sunglasses and a motorcycle also fueled by Vellfire's breast milk.
It's anime in here
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man i started so many projects like this which was just uh EXPLORATORIUM and there were a few bad guys but no overruling sense of EVIL and the player just played the game and did what the flip they liked (within the boundaries of the limitations of RPG Maker 2000 Of COurse) but yeah i would really love to play a game like that and one that is done pretty well (hell even if it isnt done really well i'd still probably play it)

DERAIL but yeah i just wanted to throw that out there

actually I was going to add something about the RPG cliche of peaceful villages with sense of evil just over the horizon harmonizing with some natural human state or at least the current state of affairs and that's why it's an easy feel to achieve/college students with cushy lives looking up illuminati videos on youtube on their ipad
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I hate talking about things in terms of masochism and sadism or domination and submission

You're obviously not as erotic as I first assumed!
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hey dom answer this please: is it masochistic to ride a rollercoaster?

what about reading a book?

I mean why do all books have like all these PAGES OF INFORMATION when it's really about the conclusion of the story. is reading through those pages masochistic? why don't people just look up IT WAS HIS SLED on wikipedia instead of watching Citizen Kane?
No this isn't anything like what I'm saying. First, riding rollercoasters, reading books etc, do not involve any pain, you are not willfully exposing yourself to any pain. The entire experience of these things is enjoyable. This is massively different to masochistic games that force you to fail repeatedly during the course of the game.

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your entire point is that playing games is somehow a PAINFUL AND AWFUL EXPERIENCE and you're not even arguing that it's THIS which the players enjoy (which WOULD make it masochistic) but that because they play to avoid that pain it is therefore instrumental to the game itself and therefore the reason for playing. this is a leap of logic so gigantic it makes the analogy I posted before look benign.
Again, not my point at all. The failure events are so ingrained in the concept of the game and the process of playing the game, that the gratification is only possible because of the pain. The gratification is a consequence of the pain because that is the only way it can exist. In order to achieve gratification, the player is subjecting himself to pain.

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the whole premise that anything other than THE GOAL or COMPLETION OF THE GAME is this awful chore that you have to go through is completely crazy. the reason why people enjoy playing difficult games is because it forces them to think and compete and test their ability to react to what they see on the screen. it's effectively about doing something which you know is within your reach, but requires your full attention to accomplish. it's intrinsically rewarding. the fact that you can LOSE at games and that you can endure hardship during the process is true but you basically conclude, for some reason, that this is THE BASIS FOR EVERYTHING. the reason why you can lose is because there would otherwise be no challenge, and thus the game simply wouldn't be fun. but yeah somehow to you this means that PEOPLE ENJOY LOSING.
In Super Meat Boy, do you really think players achieve flow? Ever? These games are designed to be constantly out of reach of your skill level. You're never on the right hand side of the mental state graph. You're constantly on the left. Even when you finally beat a screen, you're immediately put on to the next screen, with more challenges that throw you right back.

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and because losing is, for some reason, equal to pain, people who play games are therefore masochists.
Losing evokes feelings of shame, humiliation, and worthlessness. To play games dedicated to making you feel these emotions is masochism!

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hey dom answer this: if I go to the dentist and have him fix up that painful tooth, am I a masochist for feeling elated when I leave? does that mean I like the pain? if there was no pain, I wouldn't feel relieved because there would have been no reason for me to go there in the first place. does that mean the pain was the reason for why I'm feeling relieved?
You never willingly subjected yourself to that pain, the pain was entirely out of your control. This isn't the same thing at all. Please stop making bad analogies.
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No this isn't anything like what I'm saying. First, riding rollercoasters, reading books etc, do not involve any pain, you are not willfully exposing yourself to any pain. The entire experience of these things is enjoyable.

What if I knowingly read a sad book and cry during it?
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personally rollercoasters really hurt me

and ive gotten many papercuts from books
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What if I knowingly read a sad book and cry during it?
You wouldn't consider exposing yourself to materials that make you feel sad to be masochistic?

I think you have this weird view where you are unable to consider even slight masochism in anything, and that for you masochism is an all or nothing concept. You're either not masochistic at all or you're a massive fetishist. Separate the masochism concept from the real life masochism fetish.
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You wouldn't consider exposing yourself to materials that make you feel sad to be masochistic?

Nope.
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Nope.
But you're reading a sad book, to make yourself feel sad, and gaining pleasure from that. That's classic masochism.
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No, I'm reading a sad book knowing that it will make me sad, but not ONLY to feel sad.  The enjoyment of the whole book experience is what I'm after, and the sadness is only an element of the book, not what I'm seeking.
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No, I'm reading a sad book knowing that it will make me sad, but not ONLY to feel sad.  The enjoyment of the whole book experience is what I'm after, and the sadness is only an element of the book, not what I'm seeking.
Why don't you read a book that doesn't contain the sadness element and only contains the other good elements? Presumably this would give you an even better experience since you're not enjoying feeling sad.
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You read it because the book causes you to feel empathy towards a subject: you feel sad for them. This is something you enjoy or you wouldn't do it.
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i'm open to the idea. i believe there is a slight element of masochism in a lot of things we do, but i think that the word "masochism" is a bad way to describe it as it brings with it a certain mindset, but seems to be the most apt word i guess.

a gross and probably poor example is popping a painful spot/zit, i think. you knowingly put yourself through the pain in order for the gratification... of a whole load of pus on your bathroom mirror (winning a level in super meat boy....). you wouldnt overtly describe this as a masochistic action, but the idea that there is a masochistic element to it is definitely worth exploring.

probably adding nothing i have a headache and will post something better later
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