I try to avoid discussions like this over the past year, mostly since the ANTI-RELIGION ARGUMENT that ended with me being insulted by a couple of people, then them telling me to calm down and not take things so seriously.
This site is a place I actually come to hang out, so prejudices here really upset me a lot more than other places. I go to the Daily Mail forums, the old Sun Forums before they shut down, even in the past the Stormfront forums to argue/debate/discuss these kind of issues, but I expect terrible opinions there because they're terrible places. When I encounter them here, my attitude so far has been to try to shut them off so I don't completely lose it (as per the norm).
This is something (and I'm determined to remain calm here, I am MATUREMANHOORAY) that I can't avoid getting involved in now though, because there are effectively good people that I respect coming out with some quite prejudiced ideas.
If you are a man, you don't understand what it's like to be a woman. If you're straight, you don't know what it means to be gay. If you're white, you don't get what it means to be Black. It's fairly simple.
Someone earlier said "I guess that means that black people don't know what it's like to experience asian racism huh" or something - even though they were trying to be ironic in their point, they actually hit the nail on the head - a BLACK person who experiences anti-black prejudice does NOT know what it's like to be an Asian person experiencing Asian-based prejudice. A black guy doesn't know what it feels like to be called a "Paki" when they aren't from Pakistan, much like an Asian person doesn't know what it's like to be called a 'N-word'. They're similar, true, but nowhere near identical.
earlchip mentioned earlier that like faggot and N-word aren't the same either - also entirely true.
This whole thing boils down to the fact that unless you're a member of a persecuted group, however well-meaning you are, you have NO IDEA what it's like to be part of that group. As a gay man I understand what it's like to be a victim of homophobia - however, as a white man I have no idea what it's like to be a victim of systematic racism. Likewise with misogyny - a few women being harsh to me on occasions does NOT equate to ingrained societal attitudes towards women at large.
If you aren't a member of these groups, you have no right to dictate what these people should be feeling, or to make light of the offence they take to things. I am actually pretty thick skinned when it comes to immature homophobia (as shown by Farren's example where he referred to me earlier). However, that doesn't mean that I approve or expect other gay people to be. My partner is deeply affected by issues such as this - I get angry and fight back if someone calls me a faggot, he curls up into a ball, cries, and dies a little inside. Neither of us are fully representative of gay people at large, but the point is that the word DEFINITELY has a negative effect on us both.
I know gay people who're transphobic. I know trans people who're prejudiced against intersex people, and vice-versa. I know women who're homophobic, gay guys who're misogynistic, Lesbians who hate gay men, Lesbians and Gay men who're united in their prejudice towards bisexuals. When I was out clubbing one night with a friend, we suffered homophobic abuse at the hands of a black man. Likewise, I know gay men who support the BNP. I know a bisexual woman who believes that all moslems should be ejected from the UK. And I know for a fact that there are moslems who believe that gay people should be executed - we had a campaign from a group in the UK who distributed leaflets to encourage this in fact.
My point with that last paragraph is that no one is accusing white heterosexual men of being the sole providers of prejudice whatsoever. It clearly isn't the case. The point is that for a white heterosexual man to say that they understand what it's like for a gay man, a woman, a black person, an asian person, or whatever, to experience abuse, to suggest that they should toughen up or get over it, for them to use intellectual argument to JUSTIFY the abuse, is utterly deplorable. No one is saying that they don't have a right to an opinion, but that opinion cannot be given equal weighting when it comes to whether or not a minority group should be offended by a comment made by them.
I've been misogynistic in the past, as well as racist, transphobic, even homophobic. We learn from our mistakes - a wonderful thing. But we only learn when we realise that they ARE, in fact, mistakes. That takes maturity and emotional development in terms of empathy.
Farren: I think you're a nice guy and I enjoy talking to you. I think that a lot of the time you fall down on the side of equality rather than being against equality, and I think you're a very decent chap. But for some reason in this instance you (as well as many other well-thinking and right-minded people) feel that this debate (feminism, homophobia, racism, etc, etc) is something that is an intellectual debate rather than an issue that directly affects people's lives.
Is my analysis accurate? Or am I missing something here?
The thing you miss from your analysis is the fact that there's prejudice against feminine men even amongst the gay community. There's a LOT of prejudice in a variety of forms, in fact, amongst the gay community at large, which is very unfortunate.
Fuck, I've rambled for ages. To summarise though: how about people just act decently? If someone says something offensive, and someone else tells them that they're offended by it, apologise and try to refrain from using the offensive term. Don't try to justify it, don't rationalise it, don't pretend like you understand what it's like to hear the term from their perspective. Just do the decent thing and realise that you've made an error.
I support women's rights but I don't pretend I know what it's like to be a woman. Same with black people, asian people, Lesbians, etc, etc. My partner has a severe and debilitating mental illness, which I have to cope with every day - even so, even though I have mental health issues as an important and (sometimes) almost dominating part of my life, I can never know what it's like for him to be called a loony, what it's like for him when people suggest he toughens up or gets over things, when people are dismissive of his condition in comparison with physical disabilities. We can never truly know what it's like unless we see through the eyes of someone else and live their life.
RANT OVER, I LOVE EVERYONE, PLS BE NICE
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Happy New Salt + What's on your mind 2012: CHILL YOUR HEAD
