Books Fifty shades of grey (Read 10310 times)

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I would pay to see robert pattinson (patensen??) torture himself.
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ps: every single time there's a FAMOUS MUST-READ fiction book it seems it's horribly written. at least, based on what I've heard. like the last time I actually read one of those must-read books was the Da Vinci Code and it was just awful.
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I used to think that also and thought the popular ones are for people who don't really like reading/like chapters with 2 pages but then I read the Girl With The Dragon Tattoo and it's brilliant.
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at the bookstore, I was happy to see that this summer was the first time in at least 5 years they didn't have Atlas Shrugged prominently displayed among the Summer Reading (read about looters and obomunists at the beach) but then I found this shrine

it's growing!!!!
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is it wrong of me to dislike ayn rand simply because everyone who follows her ideology acts like a self-entitled prick with "perfect" logic? idk. i've always had a hard time trying to grasp what she's trying to say in her "books"/"philosophy" or whatever, but i'm not educated (smart) enough to really understand WHAT'S WRONG with it. it's always just been a headache for me trying to debate with an objectivist and their only arguments for everything is to throw an ayn rand quote that doesn't make any sense (to me) at me
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that's because that is her philosophy
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it doesn't make any sense, it's all gibberish. the name objectivist is a joke because the "objective morality" that the entire philosophy relies upon stems from an entirely subjective and frankly ignorant and antisocial interpretation of society. there are also a ton of really awful and damning quotes you can pull from atlas shrugged, because it's really not a very well-written book despite what people often say and it's full of awkward, inhuman dialogue
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is it wrong of me to dislike ayn rand simply because everyone who follows her ideology acts like a self-entitled prick with "perfect" logic? idk. i've always had a hard time trying to grasp what she's trying to say in her "books"/"philosophy" or whatever, but i'm not educated (smart) enough to really understand WHAT'S WRONG with it. it's always just been a headache for me trying to debate with an objectivist and their only arguments for everything is to throw an ayn rand quote that doesn't make any sense (to me) at me

summary of ayn rand's philosophy: fuck you, got mine

that's all you need to know.  her and her cult of objectivists are awful.
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also yeah here's how badly written atlas shrugged is: contains a speech given by a man that takes three hours to read out loud

that's also probably why they won't make any more movies based on it (since they only did PART ONE or whatever) because from what i remember reading she required legally before she died that if any movies were made of it they had to keep that speech in in its entirety so part three or w/e of the series would literally just be a movie of that speech

here's the speech if you've never seen it http://galtse.cx/, don't read it tho since it's three hours of bullshit
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there are also a ton of really awful and damning quotes you can pull from atlas shrugged
not to mention straight from the horse's mouth (this is a burn on horses)

i can't stress enough that ayn rand was a shite who advanced a morally bankrupt ideology
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I read one of her books for a high school english class. Anthem. It actually wasn't terrible story-wise. but I think I thought it was OK because I like dystopian fiction a lot.

The ending was extremely boring though and there were parts that could have been written a bit more clearly. I think it might be one of her shortest books so this doesn't say much, but if I were to base my opinion of her work ENTIRELY from this 1 short book I'd say she is a mediocre writer.

As for the message of this particular book, it did not come off as a book pushing objectivism but a reactionary book railing against collectivism and praising individualism. I actually like individualism.
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Ayn Rand's favorite vidcons: Final Fantasy The After Years and Metal Gear Solid 4
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Never heard of the after years. But I understand the MGS4 reference. It was just stuffed with over long speeches.
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is it wrong of me to dislike ayn rand simply because everyone who follows her ideology acts like a self-entitled prick with "perfect" logic?
Not wrong at all.
i've always had a hard time trying to grasp what she's trying to say in her "books"/"philosophy" or whatever, but i'm not educated (smart) enough to really understand WHAT'S WRONG with it. it's always just been a headache for me trying to debate with an objectivist and their only arguments for everything is to throw an ayn rand quote that doesn't make any sense (to me) at me
Ayn Rand was basically an ultra-capitalist. Her philosophy is aimed at promoting capitalism from an economic model to a perspective of life itself.

Her philosophy basically states that everybody should care only about themselves (or more precisely: everyone should pursue exclusively their own happiness). She writes that an organism's only goal is to survive, the means to which are of secondary importance. Everything besides yourself is an externality whose interests are void. So if you see a kid walking down the street with candy, and you're able to take it without getting caught, you should do it. The kid's interests are, after all, void.

You'd be forgiven for having a hard time understanding any of it; you probably expect an ethical philosophy to have some kind of moral basis. It's a completely savage mindset that not only goes against human nature (because hard as it may seem, humans are actually wired to care for one another) but also against everything we built our societies on. The reason we're no longer hunter-gatherers is because we were able to intelligently and collectively work together.

It's also universally agreed that it doesn't work as an economics model. The reason why the US and Europe and Japan were all able to develop at all is because they had a strong, protectionist state. The state is an extremely big financier of the corporate sector and does a lot of research and development (the reason you and I are able to talk with each other is because mostly US institutions such as MIT, which developed much of the infrastructure of the internet before Bill Gates ran with it and became fantastically rich). A capitalist system as Rand envisions it would essentially have no state to speak of. If you want an example, look at Africa. Most African countries have very little in the way of a state, they have no possibility to engage in protectionism, and there's no public R&D. Which is mostly why Africa looks the way it does today. Completely unlimited capitalism, while disastrous for us normal human beings, would in the long run also be terrible for the business sector because it would destroy the economy, which is why big business doesn't donate any money to Ron Paul's presidential campaign (the main adherent of the objectivist philosophy today—even going so far as naming his own son Rand).

As a rule, capitalism leads to strong inequality. The less rules there are, the greater the inequality. If I were asked "what's wrong with objectivism", the answer is really simple: it's savagery. It's about caring only about yourself.

tl;dr: Let's say the kid across the street gets cancer. What would be the better approach? Either 1) the entire neighborhood (or city, state, etc.) pitches in with some money to get him treated and cured, or 2) everybody ignores him, thus saving some money, and he dies. Well, if you answered the latter, congratulations: you're an objectivist.
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Never heard of the after years. But I understand the MGS4 reference. It was just stuffed with over long speeches.
I haven't played the game, but I think the MGS4 reference has more to do with the fact that it's Rand's philosophy come true. No more state power, just corporations fighting each other, using human beings as cannon fodder, as a beautiful example of the free market at its finest.

If the US were suddenly abolished as a state, what you'd see is corporate power finding some other way to fight wars. Such as by hiring contractors. And then you'd get an image kind of like MGS4, except instead of corporations fighting each other, the targets would probably be human beings who happen to live on a resourceful piece of land.
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I read one of her books for a high school english class.
that's absurd. I had a couple conservative and not very good literature teachers, but thankfully no one ever made me read Rand's garbage during those rough years.

actually, the difference seems to be that they were conservative and also very religious in the conservative American sense, whereas Rand's stuff kind of necessitates atheism

rand's philosophy goes against against everything we built our societies on
I disagree, this is very much based upon our society! rand didn't invent this, she gathered together what was happening at the time/is still happening today and turned it into what she saw as a moral philosophy.

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Most African countries have very little in the way of a state, they have no possibility to engage in protectionism, and there's no public R&D. Which is mostly why Africa looks the way it does today.
I don't understand, why are you saying africa look the way it does?
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I haven't played the game, but I think the MGS4 reference has more to do with the fact that it's Rand's philosophy come true. No more state power, just corporations fighting each other, using human beings as cannon fodder, as a beautiful example of the free market at its finest.

If the US were suddenly abolished as a state, what you'd see is corporate power finding some other way to fight wars. Such as by hiring contractors. And then you'd get an image kind of like MGS4, except instead of corporations fighting each other, the targets would probably be human beings who happen to live on a resourceful piece of land.

Ah I see. But the US was still a state in MGS4 wasn't it? But yeah, I could see that happening if corporations were suddenly given freedom to literally do whatever the fuck they wanted and had no nation to wage wars through.

that's absurd. I had a couple conservative and not very good literature teachers, but thankfully no one ever made me read Rand's garbage during those rough years.

actually, the difference seems to be that they were conservative and also very religious in the conservative American sense, whereas Rand's stuff kind of necessitates atheism
yeah, she was a conservative. but she was religious/traditionalist oddly enough. I did not like her, she picked favorites and did not like me.

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thanks dada for replying to me and putting it in a way that i can understand. i'm definitely against the ideas that ayn rand has, but it's always been hard for me to express in words why, especially when i try to talk to any objectivist friends and point out my problems with what they're saying. usually what happens is they'll throw a bunch of words at me and an ayn rand quote explaining the virtues of selfishness, and i won't have anything to say against that. sometimes i see someone just walking around carrying ATLAS SHRUGGED or THE FOUNTAINHEAD, just to impress people by the fact that they can read large books (which just looks like someone being a pretentious, dumb jerk in my opinion)

i need to start reading more books into philosophy/economics, because this stuff really interests me. i just don't have as much time as i used to to look into it as much and the language sort of gets to me.

sorry for completely derailing the topic into one about objectivism. it's been really interesting
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thanks dada for replying to me and putting it in a way that i can understand. i'm definitely against the ideas that ayn rand has, but it's always been hard for me to express in words why, especially when i try to talk to any objectivist friends and point out my problems with what they're saying. usually what happens is they'll throw a bunch of words at me and an ayn rand quote explaining the virtues of selfishness, and i won't have anything to say against that. sometimes i see someone just walking around carrying ATLAS SHRUGGED or THE FOUNTAINHEAD, just to impress people by the fact that they can read large books (which just looks like someone being a pretentious, dumb jerk in my opinion)

i need to start reading more books into philosophy/economics, because this stuff really interests me. i just don't have as much time as i used to to look into it as much and the language sort of gets to me.

sorry for completely derailing the topic into one about objectivism. it's been really interesting
if you're reading about economics, only read books about why capitalism is the worst

and carrying around the fountainhead is like talking about nietzsche in public