Games Super Smash Bros. Brawl [11/05/2007: Fox's Misfortune/Fire Emblem Theme] (Read 77739 times)

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I know what you mean. Melee had only 4 sword users, the first Brawler character update alone added three new ones(Metaknight, Pit, Zero Suit Samus). I can't really think of any other characters they might implement that would use swords though (besides Zero)
Last Edit: September 25, 2007, 11:35:33 pm by Aztec
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Arthur would be fun to see. I'll be glad if they don't overload the game with sword users though.
He doesn't use a sword?

edit: ZS Samus uses a sword? I saw her energy whip thing but that isn't really a sword.
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Yep, it's a whip.

Also Arthur would more likely use a lance as his main attacks...
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I think he was just going off-topic about the sword thing. Hmm, It looked like the ZS Samus did use the beam as a whip, but I can't help but feel when I saw her attack that it looked like a sword, I guess it would be considered a whip.

EDIT: I think Arthur would use a Lance as his A Attacks, and use his pickup items as B attacks. Like his White Flame Bomb, or even his Armor( Lowers knockback anyone?). Anywho, hope they decided to put him in, probably won't though :(​.
Last Edit: September 25, 2007, 11:44:49 pm by Aztec
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I think he was just going off-topic about the sword thing. Hmm, It looked like the ZS Samus did use the beam as a whip, but I can't help but feel when I saw her attack that it looked like a sword, I guess it would be considered a whip.

..would be considered? It is a whip. Well, first it's a gun, then it's a whip.
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Well considering they say that she can turn her gun into a whip... I understand the confusion, though. It does seem that way.
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Hmm, alright, point made.
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Okay, first of all, the game is supposed to have around 40 characters from all the rumors that are flying around. Now, with that said, I want new characters. Not clones. Taking out clones means new characters take their place. Is that simple enough?

Oh that makes perfect sense.  If we're sure we're going to get 40 characters, then every clone we get on that list is going to take the spot of a new character.  I'm totally with you here.  But... oh oh, wait a tick.  This 40 character list you've just told me is total speculation and rumor, not fact.  Damn.  Therefore, there's no reason to assume that clones would be taking up new character spots.  If you're going to operate under that assumption, then there's no disagreement here - obviously a new character is better than a clone.  But it's a rumor.  We're going in circles.

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Second, you don't just copy and paste a character from Melee into Brawl. That's not how it works. This isn't RPG Maker. It's using a different console with a different physics engine and who knows what else. Copying and pasting does not work. Creating a character takes time. Have you ever tried to create a character in something as simple as MUGEN? That takes a ton of time and it's much more simple than the shit real developers have to deal with.

Adding a character, clone or not, is not a simple process. If it was, we would already be playing Brawl.

Nah, I still disagree.  I think it is relatively easy to port an existing character from Melee into Brawl.  But I don't want to argue this.  Even if I was working on the game myself and knew precisely what it took, it is still my opinion whether or not it is "simple".

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You also have to look at this from a business perspective from Nintendo. In business, there's something called the law of diminishing marginal returns. What this basically means is that beyond a certain point, adding more units of input (characters) will give you less and less output (players in this case). So while adding an extra character to a roster of 20 might give Nintendo 100,000 additional players, adding an extra character to a roster of 30 would yield only 60,000 additional players, and adding another one at 30 characters would only produce 35,000 more.

So basically, beyond a certain point, adding more characters serves Nintendo no benefit at all and may even actually cost them money, if the addition of that new character would cost more than the potential revenue earned from the amount of additional players gained from the addition of that character.

This is obvious.  Unless I am misunderstanding you.  This is why games don't have thousands and thousands of characters.  You don't have to explain this to me.
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Nah, I still disagree.  I think it is relatively easy to port an existing character from Melee into Brawl.  But I don't want to argue this.  Even if I was working on the game myself and knew precisely what it took, it is still my opinion whether or not it is "simple".
Er....the majority of the work would be in the creation of the graphics, choreographing the animations, and stitching those all into the engine. And adding an old character is no easier than adding a new character, graphically speaking, other than that they already know what sort of actions the model should perform.

If it were just a matter of adding stats and saying how powerful a move is, it wouldn't take years to make a game.
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Games ALSO don't have thousands and thousands of characters because that is possibly the biggest turn-off for a fighting game. Man, once I get this, i'm trying out every character and getting all the secret ones immediately. So, obviously I don't want to test out 30 clones in between the 15 original characters, or something! Clones. Suck.

They're CLONES. They have tiny changes that, with some adjustment, people wouldn't even notice if they played with the original characters. Dr. Mario and Mario, for example. Visually different, but conceptually identical except for cape length, pill patterns, and maybe a couple other small details. But the point is, someone could use Mario when they usually main with Dr. Mario and have no trouble at all. They might as well not be there; they take up space. They look ugly in the character selection screen and they're damn near useless. Why have them? It's not cramming as many characters as you can into a game, that's stupid.

Every character should be unique, original, easy to pick up, and play an important part in the 'ecosystem' of the game.

EDIT: To Dapper, obviously.   :fogetshifty:
Last Edit: September 26, 2007, 01:51:04 am by Cheesy Doritos
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Games ALSO don't have thousands and thousands of characters because that is possibly the biggest turn-off for a fighting game.
Tell that to Marvel vs. Capcom 2!
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Heh, compared to Budokai Tenkaichi 3, that's light weight. But you get the picture, right? It's bad.
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Dapper: Taking the time to create a clone character, is time better spent making character who actually plays differently then the others.  If they want to make Falco with his own set of skills and a few similar moves to Fox, thats cool, but if all they are doing is making him a slightly faster version of Fox with a gun that has different knock back and damage, I'd much rather see them working on a way to include Geno or Sonic into the game(or whatever characters people want).  Also, copy and pasting a character isn't that easy, espically if the games are not running on the same engine and if it is, then thats just being lazy(like making clone characters).  Personally, I think we should expect more from a game with the Nintendo Seal of Approval.

Bit late now, but whatever...
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Tell that to Marvel vs. Capcom 2!

so true

though really marvel vs capcom 2 only really has like 6 characters (Storm, Cable, Psylocke, Magneto, Cyclops and Sentinel.)
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EDIT:  DELETED.  Nevermind, this has gotten out of hand.  I don't see much value in this argument.

Let me just ask an opinion question since I am curious.  Obviously, unique characters are better than clones.  But clones have some value right?  In your opinion, what is the quality ratio between clones and uniques.  For example, I would prefer six clones over one unique - how about you?
Last Edit: September 26, 2007, 03:28:52 am by Dapper Swindler
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Wow this topic got hostile and unappealing real quick.
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This is obvious.  Unless I am misunderstanding you.  This is why games don't have thousands and thousands of characters.  You don't have to explain this to me.

This in itself is the primary reason clones shouldn't be added. Either change their moves up and add them as a "new" character, or toss them out and make room for a different character. Nintendo only has so much time and money. Why not invest it into new characters?

Doesn't matter what either of us says though. Doesn't seem like we're going to be able to change each other's minds.
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Nintendo only has so much time and money. Why not invest it into new characters?

Doesn't matter what either of us says though. Doesn't seem like we're going to be able to change each other's minds.

We're just in disagreement about how much resources adding clones consumes compared to adding new characters.  But I am interested in your opinion on the hypothetical question I posed in my previous post.
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Depends on the character. If it was Dr. Mario (with the same moves and everything, no Fludd) then I'd trade one new character for him. But for characters like Roy, Falco, or Pichu, probably more. Maybe one for every 5 clones.
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well i can definitely see myself turning off that assist trophy
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