Topic: Lakota Indians Secede from the US (Read 1302 times)

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Yeah because native americans are immortal and the ones alive today are the same ones that were there when we came

edit: i am going to stop saying "we" now because it was a dumb word choice to begin with
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How big is the Lakota?  I'm sure they must be a pretty big tribe if they are doing something like this.  This is awesome, I wish them all the best!
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this happens to me in civilization all the time, it not a big deal. it's what america gets for not sending more entertainers down there or building a colosseum or something.

all you do is march one knight down there and take it back. if you really suck you can send a hoplite down there but they really suck and you will feel stupid if they die

if i was the us government i would wait until i can build fascists and then send a few of them down there to make them feel bad for letting their ambition reach well beyond hunting buffalo and making jewelry or whatever the hell indians do nowadays except hate us wonderful americans
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they don't have claims to this land, we're the ones who brought them here

You're right, the only people who have claim to the land itself are the Native Americans...

...but here's where things such as "ownership" come into play.  Civilization invented currency and most of the land was purchased.  The rest was taken, but as history has taught us winners write the history books.  Speaking from a realistic point of view, there land isn't safe in the middle of a massive country full of political vultures. 

Although I expect this place to be a hippy breeding ground.  The first thing that'll probably go is the whole "marijuana are bad lol" stance that the federal government has taken for the past 50 years.
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My boss was telling me how he thinks that in 2012 the world isn't going to end but we are all going to be fighting for food and the world will be in chaos. This will be Lakota's chance to grab power with ancient indian wisdoms.
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You're right, the only people who have claim to the land itself are the Native Americans...

...but here's where things such as "ownership" come into play.  Civilization invented currency and most of the land was purchased.  The rest was taken, but as history has taught us winners write the history books.  Speaking from a realistic point of view, there land isn't safe in the middle of a massive country full of political vultures. 

Although I expect this place to be a hippy breeding ground.  The first thing that'll probably go is the whole "marijuana are bad lol" stance that the federal government has taken for the past 50 years.

I can't tell if you're responding to this seriously or not so I will say that that was a fake response to Inri Cheetos' afro-american post because how else do you respond to everything he says I am not saying US AMERICAN WHITIE OWN THIS LAND GOD GAVE IT TO US
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I don't see this as a big deal. My best guess is that the american government will just ignore them and not recognize them as an independent nation and they'll become america's tibet. Either that or maybe they will try to renegotiate some of their treaties.

Yeah I am inclined to this viewpoint as well.  I don't really think that aside from the whole "notion of the news," that anything really interesting or revolutionary is going to come out of this event.  I could stand to be corrected however.  Regardless though, I don't think that the US would let this happen.
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My biggest question is how they'll protect their new nation.  A country with its own sovereignty follows it's own laws and unless the U.S. signs some sort of protection treaty (which I doubt considering these guys want NOTHING to do with the U.S.) then the country is perfectly open to raids from anyone who's armed enough to attack.
There are several microcountries in Europe that is very similar to what this country will be like. Those places do not have issues with people of the exterior country attacking them any time they please. Even if it is an independent nation, law enforcement will be international between the US and this new country.


edit:

Oh yeah btw, this is awesome in every way it can be awesome. Great for them, seriously, and I sincerely hope this works out extremely well. It was about time an oppressed group in USA broke free to form their own nation, and this goes for all other great nations, including Russia and China. They deserve their independence.
Last Edit: December 21, 2007, 02:04:28 am by Lars
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There are several microcountries in Europe that is very similar to what this country will be like. Those places do not have issues with people of the exterior country attacking them any time they please. Even if it is an independent nation, law enforcement will be international between the US and this new country.
this particular 'microcountry' will likely be larger than monaco, luxembourg, liechtenstein, san marino, the vatican, and andorra combined unless I am grossly overestimating how much land the lakota are trying to lay claim to

I mean hell the territories they want to take from North Dakota alone exceed 15,000 square miles and all those european 'microcountries' only total like... <2000 sq miles all put together so yeah
Last Edit: December 21, 2007, 02:47:16 am by Wash Cycle
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I can already see TV people asking random people in the streets how they feel about this and getting answers from blacks and whites like "How dare they take OUR land? We've lived here for so long!" and other silly american phrases.
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I can already see TV people asking random people in the streets how they feel about this and getting answers from blacks and whites like "How dare they take OUR land? We've lived here for so long!" and other silly american phrases.

I'm actually excited about this.  Not because of the ignorance but because random black people are finally regarding themselves as AMERICAN instead of some stupid subsidiary group like "afro-american."  Fuck, I don't know why the US, as a nation, never refers to itself as a nationality and instead insists on segregating ourselves based on where our fucking ancestors came from. 

I wonder what's running through the collective minds of Texas right now...
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As seriously great as this is, and as much as I want this to happen, am I the only one who thinks this won't last for even a month? If at all?
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I'm actually excited about this.  Not because of the ignorance but because random black people are finally regarding themselves as AMERICAN instead of some stupid subsidiary group like "afro-american."  Fuck, I don't know why the US, as a nation, never refers to itself as a nationality and instead insists on segregating ourselves based on where our fucking ancestors came from.

Man I definitely agree with this.  Ancestry IS important, but fuck, they are AMERICANS now, and their families HAVE been for many generations.  I mean, you should respect and pay attention and such to your ancestry, but that doesn't mean you should completely ignore the present.  And this isn't just to the Lakota, like he said it's pretty much EVERY sub-group of America.

(sorry if this posts like nine times GW is not working right)
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So, what do you think they will do if this goes through and the US cuts off all power and other infrastructures that they have been taking for granted?
I'm wondering this as well.
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Just like most things that are said in the Native American community, this means absolutely nothing and will go nowhere. I'm sure the people who said it thought they were doing something important or significant or whatever but you guys are right, everyones just going to ignore it. And whats more the people who said this are also going to ignore it. When US troops drive through "their land" or the government comes to find out why Jimmy Blackfoot didn't pay his taxes the  natives are going to spout some bs that sounds important and then do absolutely nothing - or, actually, even more likely: they'll try to "rally" the Native Community to do something about it (like, idk, post shit on their blog about it?) but will fail horribly because most of the Native Community is poor, disorganized embarresed of/confused about their own herritage and hold exactly zero political influence.

And no, this would not be cool, it would mean Native people who have absoutely no idea how to organize a country doing stupid shit and fucking up things accross their borders and it would also mean a lot of horrible shit that we would all have to deal with before they were even able to establish this fantasy country like fuck with our economy because suddenly trillions of dollars worth of real estate has been fucked with and businesses aren't being regulated, taxed, or forced to pay a minimum wage to their employees and provide a decent standard of living - assuming that there wouldn't have to be some sort of armed struggle for any of this shit to actually happen (which there would and guess what, the Natives would lose).
Last Edit: December 22, 2007, 03:15:18 am by Fahrenheit Jr, Mr
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Man I definitely agree with this.  Ancestry IS important, but fuck, they are AMERICANS now, and their families HAVE been for many generations.  I mean, you should respect and pay attention and such to your ancestry, but that doesn't mean you should completely ignore the present.  And this isn't just to the Lakota, like he said it's pretty much EVERY sub-group of America.
Even here in Norway we have groups talking of breaking loose from Norway and they've been part of Norway for over a thousand years when we first became an independent country. For African-Americans and European-Americans I'd say the concept of nationality should take priority, but for people that have their roots in the actual land they are living, things are quite different. There is no clear border between ancestry and nationality.
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I was reading the Lakota Freedom Delegation website, and here is a list of their reasons for leaving the US:


I can't see how these will be fixed by being their own country.  Health is terrible?  Let's leave and not have access to US hospitals and doctors and fix these things ourselves (because we obviously couldn't do that under US control somehow).  Food programs giving us diabetes?  Let's have no food programs at all and grow our own food (obviously the only reason we couldn't do that before is because we had convenient food programs).  No water or electricity?  Let's lose access to the government provided water and electricity we already have.

Unless I am thinking about this all wrong, it seems like they're making things WORSE than better.  These conditions are bad, but I don't see how they're fixing them by removing themselves from what they DO have.

edit:  oh man just a few weeks ago my grandma was rambling on about how "the white man and the red man could never be friends" and apparently she was right all along
Last Edit: December 21, 2007, 04:02:33 am by Velfarre
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So basically all the US has to do is ignore their declaration of independence and nothing happens?

Also, thanks for that list Velfarre. I agree, if this secession actually goes through (which it won't), they would fuck themselves even more.
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Quebec.

...Lakota, probably.



I loled quite hard.
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I was reading the Lakota Freedom Delegation website, and here is a list of their reasons for leaving the US:


I can't see how these will be fixed by being their own country.  Health is terrible?  Let's leave and not have access to US hospitals and doctors and fix these things ourselves (because we obviously couldn't do that under US control somehow).  Food programs giving us diabetes?  Let's have no food programs at all and grow our own food (obviously the only reason we couldn't do that before is because we had convenient food programs).  No water or electricity?  Let's lose access to the government provided water and electricity we already have.

Unless I am thinking about this all wrong, it seems like they're making things WORSE than better.  These conditions are bad, but I don't see how they're fixing them by removing themselves from what they DO have.

edit:  oh man just a few weeks ago my grandma was rambling on about how "the white man and the red man could never be friends" and apparently she was right all along

percentage is a funny thing...you see, when America has 300 million people, and lets say 10% die of cancer...it's a lot of people, but when you have a population of 500...and 10% die of cancer...its really an illusion, especialy when you don't mention your population number.

nothing againts those facts or anything, I'm just pointing it out.