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Final Fantasy XII - greatness. (Read 2167 times)

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Shadowtext

#101 January 16, 2008, 10:28:00 pm

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Quote from: DragonSlayer on January 16, 2008, 09:37:14 pm

dotdotdot (sorry even i didn't think you'd go and say something this stupid)

I care about stories in RPG's. And your comparison is horrible. Let me put it in a way so that you will understand. Would you watch anime just for animation (anime > animation, game > gameplay get it) or for story/setting/characters as well?

Yeah, both. It's not a great comparison but there shouldn't even be any need for comparisons. It's completely beyond my understanding how anyone can say something as dumb as you just did. Why it's so difficult to comperehend PEOPLE CARE ABOUT STORIES. Jesus christ, just because it's a game doesn't mean stories don't matter.

Also, I agree about FFX-2 with panda. I find it really hard to believe it is misunderstood work of art or parody.

Well sure, but there are also viable health benefits to eating chocolate. I just don't know anyone with any sense who eats it as a health food. Maybe there are a few hippies who eat it without any sweeteners added, like as a coffee added or something....and likewise maybe there's a game out there made by some guy in a beret and distributed secretly on floppy disk that actually has a good story.

And for the record, it's not that I find it hard to comprehend that people care about stories. It's just that I've never really seen a person who makes that claim in regards to video games that doesn't make it clear pretty quickly that it's not so much that they're connoisseurs of the narrative form as it is that they've convinced themselves that what they're doing isn't the same as what the people playing Halo as a drinking game are doing. I believed in it at one time, just not anymore. Maybe it's just me being jaded from hanging around GamingW too long, though, and reacting to the attitudes I see here.

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maladroithim

#102 January 16, 2008, 10:35:25 pm

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Quote from: Shadowtext on January 16, 2008, 10:28:00 pm

And for the record, it's not that I find it hard to comprehend that people care about stories. It's just that I've never really seen a person who makes that claim in regards to video games that doesn't make it clear pretty quickly that it's not so much that they're connoisseurs of the narrative form as it is that they've convinced themselves that what they're doing isn't the same as what the people playing Halo as a drinking game are doing. I believed in it at one time, just not anymore. Maybe it's just me being jaded from hanging around GamingW too long, though, and reacting to the attitudes I see here.

I'd like to add that I feel this way, too. Occassionally I'll come across a game that has a good story (DQ8) or readable dialogue (KOTOR II) or is a clever parody (FFX-2), but by and large I think that video game writing is largely disposable, and when I form ideas about video games, I try not to hold bad their typically bad writing against them.

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Feldschlacht IV

#103 January 16, 2008, 11:10:27 pm

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Quote from: maladroithim on January 16, 2008, 10:35:25 pm

I'd like to add that I feel this way, too. Occassionally I'll come across a game that has a good story (DQ8) or readable dialogue (KOTOR II) or is a clever parody (FFX-2), but by and large I think that video game writing is largely disposable, and when I form ideas about video games, I try not to hold bad their typically bad writing against them.

I tend to disagree with this relatively new, 'edgy' way of thinking that all or most RPG's have horrible writing or bad stories. When I play an RPG, I don't expect Shakespearian dialogue or writing on par with Oskar Wilde, I just expect a story good enough to entertain me. If an RPG has that, then as far as I'm concerned, it's good writing and it's what I've come to expect.

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Shadowtext

#104 January 16, 2008, 11:35:11 pm

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Quote from: Feldschlacht IV on January 16, 2008, 11:10:27 pm

I tend to disagree with this relatively new, 'edgy' way of thinking that all or most RPG's have horrible writing or bad stories. When I play an RPG, I don't expect Shakespearian dialogue or writing on par with Oskar Wilde, I just expect a story good enough to entertain me. If an RPG has that, then as far as I'm concerned, it's good writing and it's what I've come to expect.

Which is fair enough, until people start bitching about how bad one Final Fantasy's story is, despite the fact that all of the others were pretty much moderate-quality pulp fiction. By which I mean like....slightly better than The Inheritance Cycle.*

That's when it stops being about enjoying the game and starts being about which game one is supposed to like to remain respectable.

(* - Keep in mind, this isn't much of a compliment.)

Last Edit: January 16, 2008, 11:45:26 pm by Shadowtext

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Feldschlacht IV

#105 January 16, 2008, 11:58:27 pm

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Quote from: Shadowtext on January 16, 2008, 11:35:11 pm

Which is fair enough, until people start bitching about how bad one Final Fantasy's story is, despite the fact that all of the others were pretty much moderate-quality pulp fiction.
(* - Keep in mind, this isn't much of a compliment.)

I still disagree, because even if that's the case about all of the Final Fantasy stories, that still doesn't mean that one can't complain one Final Fantasy story is bad relative to the others. One should logically be allowed to have the opinion that say, Final Fantasy 10's story was better than Final Fantasy 12 without someone using the argument that all RPG plotlines are bad anyway and it doesn't really matter.

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Shadowtext

#106 January 17, 2008, 12:28:28 am

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I think the only way you can really justify partaking in nothing but crap and then whining about it when one of the crappy titles is slightly worse than the others is if you're a humorist. So if you're Dave Barry, cool. Rant all you want about how stupid MacArthur Park was because you manage to make me laugh. If you're Random Internet Goblin #444 whining that the emo protagonist in the newest Final Fantasy didn't angst enough, and that this is the main reason you didn't like the game....not so much.

I mean feel free to state your opinions about it. But if you go in to the thing expecting Fun + Crap and then get Fun + Crap++....how is that really much of a difference?

Last Edit: January 17, 2008, 12:31:04 am by Shadowtext

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Feldschlacht IV

#107 January 17, 2008, 12:36:14 am

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See, I guess that's you and I disagree fundamentally. I don't think that RPG plotlines are crap, and even the Final Fantasy titles, which I don't like as well as other RPG's, are more deserving in their plot and characters than crap. It may be your opinion and that's fine, but in all of the RPG's that I've enjoyed for 10 years, I think it's unfair in my opinion.

Like I said before, I disagree with the mindset that some people think; that all RPG plotlines are bad.

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Shadowtext

#108 January 17, 2008, 12:45:12 am

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You said yourself, though, that you don't expect much from them. You're not expecting Shakespeare or Oscar Wilde from these things. Which says to me that even if you're not ready to call them "crap," you're admitting that they're only "good" because you're giving them special concession because of the medium. You would not be as forgiving to something if it weren't in a video game. If you saw writing like that in a book, you might not decide to finish it.

Again, this is fine. But it makes it hard for me to take complaints about the story seriously if even the people who like them admit that they're only calling the stories good because they're comparing them to Doom instead of The Grapes of Wrath.

Look, I'm exagerrating my opinion a bit. I don't actually consider most of these stories crap. I consider them mediocre. But if I'm going to judge something for its story....if that's going to be the primary factor in whether or not I like something....I'm going to judge it on the same level as anything else that I look at primarily for the story.

Last Edit: January 17, 2008, 12:46:58 am by Shadowtext

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Feldschlacht IV

#109 January 17, 2008, 12:57:42 am

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Quote from: Shadowtext on January 17, 2008, 12:45:12 am

You said yourself, though, that you don't expect much from them. You're not expecting Shakespeare or Oscar Wilde from these things.

That's not true. I never said I don't expect much. I said I don't expect them to be Shakespeare or Oscar Wilde, which to me are the pinnacle of literature. But that still doesn't mean they still can't be great. And no, I can't say I excuse the stories because they're video games, because I also read supplemental books, mangas, side stories, and short novels of the RPG's I enjoy; because I consider them to have good, solid stories that I can enjoy as much as any book or movie.

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Ryan

#110 January 17, 2008, 03:19:50 am

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man ffx-2 is not a fucking parody of anything. this is square we're talking about.

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Shadowtext

#111 January 17, 2008, 03:40:19 am

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Quote from: Ryan on January 17, 2008, 03:19:50 am

man ffx-2 is not a fucking parody of anything. this is square we're talking about.

So?

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Ryan

#112 January 17, 2008, 03:49:07 am

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oh please. there is no evidence or even a hint that this is a parody. if square had a history of being witty this might be a bit more plausible

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Shadowtext

#113 January 17, 2008, 03:58:01 am

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How does the history of the author even figure into the argument if my point is that the author and their intentions don't matter?

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tomohawkjoe

#114 January 17, 2008, 04:23:19 am

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I guess I'm the only one who enjoyed the music...

In all seriousness though

Quote

Yes, they should leave FF Games with FF styled battles, you walk around swoosh big noise crappy (sometimes cool) effect then a battle.
With Gambits it was too annoying, I left gambit for my teammates but the only gambit the person I was using had on was attack closest enemy. Otherwise they would waste mp on random shit that wasn't needed at the time...

Yes, because change should never happen...ever...its bad...its really bad...boo change!
If your having problems with gambits, then maybe your using them wrong. I personally see gambits as a godsend, It really helps me narrow down the tedious things that take way to much time to do automatically. Being able to rebuff without having to go in and have tell every character to rebuff was a pain. MP is never wasted if you set your gambits properly

you will fail

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Lainge

#115 January 17, 2008, 09:49:02 am

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Quote from: tomohawkjoe on January 17, 2008, 04:23:19 am

I guess I'm the only one who enjoyed the music...
In all seriousness though

quote

Yes, because change should never happen...ever...its bad...its really bad...boo change!
If your having problems with gambits, then maybe your using them wrong. I personally see gambits as a godsend, It really helps me narrow down the tedious things that take way to much time to do automatically. Being able to rebuff without having to go in and have tell every character to rebuff was a pain. MP is never wasted if you set your gambits properly

I know and usually I did set them up right, most of the stuff I used didn't need mp anyway. But that didn't stop them from wasting it.

'Saying a good thing about FF12 Shock!' I did like Shades of Black... and Charge...

Anyway, I'm insanely good at finding items on any game so I was walking around with all the ethers, elixirs and pretty much money I would ever need.

About me bolding the text, it's good to see that you agree with me.

Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7

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