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Topic: Final Fantasy XII - greatness. (Read 2167 times)

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Awakening

#1 December 30, 2007, 12:24:09 pm

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Is it just me or IS THIS THE COOLEST IN THE SERIES?
When I was younger I started with FF VII and FF VIII, I'm pretty sure at this point I have played all of them except for FF XI.

Last night I finally beat the game and I'm just astonished at how well put together it was.
I'm hoping there's a ton of you out there that have done the same.

The dialogue, the storyline - it's bittersweet. I feel proud that I beat the game, but the plot was stringing me along so well!
At the end I was almost sad that Balthier could have died. Sad I know.

How do you think this game compares with others in the series?

Last Edit: December 30, 2007, 12:26:02 pm by Awakening

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Tau

#2 December 30, 2007, 01:37:49 pm

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Gameplay wise it's better for me, but story wise.. I was lost, by the end I figured it out.. mostly haha. The story just didn't drag me in as much as others in the series, but still ALOT better then Final Fantasy X in my opinion. Had some interesting characters(Balthier is the man!!) and some just kinda there for the sake of being there.(Penelo)

The wealth of secrets and side quests were great and the Clan missions was something to delve into, but I wish their was a mini game that was in the game, like in Final Fantasy X it was Blitzball(Best part of the game for me) and Final Fantasy VII had Gold Saucer, VIII & IX had the card game, but Final Fantasy XII had nothing really, was kinda disappointed in that.

All in all good game, not the best in the series, but up in the top 5 I would say.

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Rowain

#3 December 30, 2007, 01:39:16 pm

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You were actually INTRIGUED by the plot? I found it was developed so slowly and sparingly that it was hard to stay interested. Cutscene, 2 hour dungeon crawl, small cutscene, 1 hour crawl, big cutscene, 3 hour crawl... etc.

Though, I've definitely gotta agree that the game was a pleasure to look at. The graphics were practically next gen despite being on extremely old hardware, and the voice acting was generally quite excellent, though obviously reduced quality just to allow all of it to fit on the disc. I found the gameplay pretty fun too - the battle system was a hit/miss type thing with many people, but I liked it. It had one of the weakest casts in a Final Fantasy I think, with Vaan feeling somewhat rehashed, and Penelo and Basch feeling somewhat forgotten, but I liked Balthier and Fran.

Anyway, FFXII was definitely a step in the right direction after the dung heap that was FFX and FFX-2, and I did appreciate the political tensions theme as opposed to the usual metrosexual evil wizard dude trying to collect ____ to conquer the world. I just wish they had given us MORE of those beautiful cutscenes, or just more rapid plot development in general. Still a cool game.

WHY SO SERIOUS HAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA

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Ohlichris

#4 December 30, 2007, 02:53:43 pm

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I kind of agree with Rowain about the plot. To me it developed real slowly and I think there could have been a little more to it. I disliked how most dungeons were just dungeons, not really that important to the plot. I think there were way too little cutscenes in the game, which I noticed a lot more in dungeons and towns. Just felt a little different from the other games. There should've also been more backstory for the main characters (it would have been awesome if it were like FFVI which handled backstories very well).

I really like the battle system in this game. It's actually very similar to the others, but just faster. I did dislike some things though. I never really felt the need to use magic, unless it was white or green magic (and occasionally arcane and time magic), which felt very different from past games. There should've been more strategies involving magic. I did like the number of spells they included in the game (reminded me of FFV and FFVI). Technicks weren't exactly useful either, except for a few.
It was cool that there were a lot of Espers, but the way they handled them in battle could've been a lot better. You usually had to buff them with all sorts of magic before bringing them to boss battles. Another thing that bothered me was the license board. While it was cool, it kind of ruined character individuality (which didn't really help the fact that the characters needed to be fleshed out just a little more).

The game is still one of my favourites though. It had a great big world and fun gameplay.

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jman00

#5 December 30, 2007, 03:05:58 pm

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FFXII was absolutly terrible... I personally couldn't get myself to play this. They just HAD to base their battle system from FFXI and that game was even worse then FFXII. BUT I won't give FFXII too much shame, I was a lil' impressed with the Liscence system, it certainly reminded me of FFTactics, so you can choose what kind of a character you want your guys, it gives off that Saga Frontier feeling, one other plus I will give is the music, the music was good to listen to.

But the battle system as I mentioned before, terrible... completely terrible... if it had FFX-2's battle system (horrible story, the gameplay was fantastic.) then I'd be more pleased, but that's not all I have to complain about the game, you have to constantly go to the menu, and change so much shit, just to get through another area... its just not worth all the trouble.

The characters weren't very inviting... except for Balthier, he kicked ass, he was my favorite, and Dr.Cid. Those two were my favs, but all the others were just mneh, it really didn't give much time to show much about the character or whatever.

All in all, I think this game was just a big overeaction, just like how FF7 was, but the difference between those two were, FF7's battle system was simple and not annoying, while FF12's system makes me want to punch the creators right in the face.

All in all, 4/10. There's my review for this game. Play it if you played FF11, if you are old school and don't want things to be changed like myself, then I recommend don't play this god awful game.

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UPRC

#6 December 30, 2007, 04:30:09 pm

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I don't know, jman00.. The battle system was different yeah, but it wasn't shit. It took a little getting used to, but I really liked it in the end. It was much more strategic than the typical ATB battles of past games.

Also, you had way more control over your party at all times. I actually felt like I was controlling them. I never had gambits on or anything, because that ruined the fun and the challenge.

(sorry if the post reads weird in any way, I haven't even been awake for 10 minutes)

Last Edit: December 30, 2007, 04:33:01 pm by UPRC

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Marcus

#7 December 30, 2007, 04:32:47 pm

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To me, the gameplay was a turn in the right direction. I like how "traditional" turn-based ATTACK ATTACK HEAL RPG's are turning into games that require the modest bit of skill/moderation to complete and while the gambit system pretty much did the fighting for you (if you knew how to use it wisely) the implementation of a skill system (excuse me, licenses) felt good to me. I didn't appreciate trudging through LARGE OPEN FIELDS especially considering there was nothing to do but KILL KILL KILL but if this system was interpretted properly, it could be really refreshing.

But the story was blech. I was super excited that the game took place in Ivalice because Final Fantasy Tactic's story is GOD as far as videogames go but everything just seemed like a total step down from it. The whole "political intrigue" was pretty much dumbed down and the game introduced all the annoying anime cliches that I hated like bunny women, flamboyently dressed teenagers, and ambigious "what gender are they???" men. I can't blame the writers for not making it like Tactics since that was a totally different team, but when I think of Ivalice I think of ALTERNATE DARK FANTASY MEDIEVAL EUROPE and this game wasn't that.

As everyone else said, the pacing blew. I actually preferred Final Fantasy X because the pacing was perfect. It actually felt like you were going on a grand adventure similar to Lord of the Rings, and the fact that the world was a literal linear circle was a really nice atmospheric touch.

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UPRC

#8 December 30, 2007, 04:36:49 pm

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It was based more on the Ivalice of Tactics Advance. You know, the cuter, happier, kiddy Ivalice.

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Marcus

#9 December 30, 2007, 04:45:12 pm

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And that's why I hate it. Square is basically denying the existence of Tactics' Ivalice. The whole point behind Final Fantasy Tactics Advance was that the world wasn't real and while I hated that game, I thought the story was pretty interesting: what would you do if you discovered your vision of paradise was in fact A DREAM?

My disapointment when I found out that they're continuing the MADE UP Ivalice and completely blowing off the cool one cannot be measured.

Fuck Square.

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Feldschlacht IV

#10 December 30, 2007, 05:20:55 pm

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No, the made up Ivalice is still just that, made up. In the timeline, Final Fantasy XII is a few hundred years before Final Fantasy Tactics, but still in the same universe.

The timeline works like this

Final Fantasy 12-Final Fantasy 12 Revenant Wings----------Final Fantasy Tactics-----------Vagrant Story

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Marcus

#11 December 30, 2007, 05:27:40 pm

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Where the hell did you get this info because I've heard nothing of it nor found any evidence in game to connect something as ridiculous as Final Fantasy 12 with Vagrant Story.

What happened to the bunny women? What about the flying airships? Why did the ugly bear like moogles in FF12 suddenly turn into the cute white moogles everyone knows and loves in Tactics?

Or is this one of those "behind the scenes" storylines where everything is pieced together via hearsay and assumptions like every Legend of Zelda game?

Last Edit: December 30, 2007, 05:36:36 pm by angry black man

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Feldschlacht IV

#12 December 30, 2007, 05:32:46 pm

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Quote from: angry black man on December 30, 2007, 05:27:40 pm

Where the hell did you get this info because I've heard nothing of it nor found any evidence in game to connect something as ridiculous as Final Fantasy 12 with Vagrant Story.

What happened to the bunny women? What about the flying airships? Why did the ugly bear like moogles in FF12 suddenly turn into the cute white moogles everyone knows and loves in Tactics?

Or is this one of those "behind the scenes" storylines where everything is pieced together via hearsay and assumptions like every Legend of Zelda game?

The timeline and the footnotes with it are in the official (official, as in from Square) Final Fantasy 12 Ultimania. First of all, as far as the airships, some great catastrophe happened, and the technology was lost (as referenced in Goug), second, there WERE no moogles in Tactics, they went extinct, remember? As far as the Viera, I don't know. Given that there area that Tactics takes place in is relatively small, one can assume humans only populated it. Or Viera could be extinct, it's not confirmed yet.

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Marcus

#13 December 30, 2007, 05:42:57 pm

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I just did some research and I think it's pretty bullshit. It seems that Square and Matsuno (the guy who created Ivalice) are trying to retcon Ivalice as a basic "term" instead of the world itself (as it was originally in Final Fantasy Tactics). Vagrant Story took place in Valendia and made no references to Tactics but suddenly because a few names pop up in FF12 they suddenly want to connect the entire series?

Quote

there WERE no moogles in Tactics, they went extinct, remember?

The cheapest summon is moogle which summoned the furry white clown nose moogles everyone knows and loves.

Quote

Or Viera could be extinct, it's not confirmed yet

Or Square just ran out of ideas in their attempt to create a new "franchise."

I just think the whole "Ivalice Alliance" thing is pretty stupid. Long history or not, it's pretty retarded to take several different franchises and try to mold them together with so very little common ground. It wasn't until FF12 that Square suddenly decided to merge the game worlds together and they're trying to grasp at straws by using unexplained story mechanics as excuses for what happened to the world.

As I said earlier "Fuck Square." I'm tired of them milking good ideas by shitting out bad products. I would have been much happier knowing FFT was it's own self contained universe instead of an ongoing series of spinoffs and degenerate products. My opinion may change if they find an intelligent way to connect the events of FF12 with the War of the Lions but until then, I see this as a horrible cop out.

Last Edit: December 30, 2007, 05:45:02 pm by angry black man

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Feldschlacht IV

#14 December 30, 2007, 05:53:47 pm

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Quote from: angry black man on December 30, 2007, 05:42:57 pm

I just did some research and I think it's pretty bullshit. It seems that Square and Matsuno (the guy who created Ivalice) are trying to retcon Ivalice as a basic "term" instead of the world itself (as it was originally in Final Fantasy Tactics). Vagrant Story took place in Valendia and made no references to Tactics but suddenly because a few names pop up in FF12 they suddenly want to connect the entire series?
The cheapest summon is moogle which summoned the furry white clown nose moogles everyone knows and loves.

Or Square just ran out of ideas in their attempt to create a new "franchise."

I just think the whole "Ivalice Alliance" thing is pretty stupid. Long history or not, it's pretty retarded to take several different franchises and try to mold them together with so very little common ground. It wasn't until FF12 that Square suddenly decided to merge the game worlds together and they're trying to grasp at straws by using unexplained story mechanics as excuses for what happened to the world.

As I said earlier "Fuck Square." I'm tired of them milking good ideas by shitting out bad products. I would have been much happier knowing FFT was it's own self contained universe instead of an ongoing series of spinoffs and degenerate products. My opinion may change if they find an intelligent way to connect the events of FF12 with the War of the Lions but until then, I see this as a horrible cop out.

I mean, yeah, it's pretty shitty HOW they're linking the series together, but it is official. I was of the opinion that they're going to release more games to explain more logically how the series links together. There also could be more info in the Ultimanias that have yet to be fully translated.

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lil_Vivi

#15 December 30, 2007, 05:58:38 pm

FF6 da great!
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I actually like the thought of this game. It seems fun. I haven't really played it yet, but I did read up on some story about a year ago. I wasn't too thrilled, but this doesn't seem like a story FF anyway. It's sort of more like gameplay, I suppose, right?

Combing FFIV V VI and XII together... get the best game ever.

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tomohawkjoe

#16 December 30, 2007, 06:16:38 pm

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I looooovvveeee FFXII. Granted there were a few anime cliches, they at least lowered them in terms of previous final fantasies. I'm an exploration whore, and this game had a huge vast world for my greedy little whore hands to grab ass at. I enjoyed the story, but that was only because when I first played it, the story confused me, and someone recommended I look at the story a different way. At first I thought Vaan was the main character, and I felt the game didn't tell me enough about him. Then someone told me the story was just being told through Vaan's perspective, and that it wasn't really about Vaan to begin with. SO I tried the game again with the advice about the story to see if it made more sense. It did. I really don't know how, but the game felt alot more fleshed out, since I wasn't focusing on Vaan anymore. To me the whole game felt more real. I mean, alot of what happened to Final Fantasy after FF7 was "Whiny Male Lead with sword takes on teh WORLD!!!!9999999damage!!!!!" (with the exception of FF9) and this game felt more cohesive. The Gambit System was a hug plus for me. It really made battles easier and had a little strategy behind it. I do have to agree with Angry Black Man on the whole Ivalice bit. Although I really enjoyed this game, I felt at some point they really shouldn't of just thrown the Ivalice tag on this game. But then again, FFT still remains my favorite FF of all time, so maybe that might be why I see it like that. Another reason I love this game is Vayne. I wish FF had more villains like this. He wasn't defined by weapons or looks (I'm looking at you Sephiroth), but rather by his actions (I know that sounds cheesy). It felt good that Square was finally lowering the amount of Anime they let influence there games (although there is still some in FFXII), this game was definitely a huge step up from previous Final Fantasies (FF7,8,X,X-2, you get the picture).

Quote

if you are old school and don't want things to be changed like myself, then I recommend don't play this god awful game.

I'm a huge fan of old school RPGs, and this game was definitely good. The battle system wasn't by any means very easy to grab on to, but it wasn't that complicated. Like UPRC said, it was an improvement strategy-wise compared to previous FFs.

Quote

I never really felt the need to use magic, unless it was white or green magic (and occasionally arcane and time magic), which felt very different from past games. There should've been more strategies involving magic.

Really? Because I can't recall how many times magicks have saved my ass. Specifically during the Chaos battle. Scathe was a life saver. Plus the Oil + Firaga combo pretty much destroyed anything.

you will fail

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Rowain

#17 December 30, 2007, 06:20:48 pm

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Quote from: jman00 on December 30, 2007, 03:05:58 pm

All in all, 4/10. There's my review for this game. Play it if you played FF11, if you are old school and don't want things to be changed like myself, then I recommend don't play this god awful game.

This attitude is pretty destructive to the game industry as a whole dude. Like can you not see the inherant problem in that sort of attitude? Would you actually be SATISFIED playing jrpg rehashes for the rest of your GAMING LIFE? Don't like the battle system etc OK, whatever, but hating the game because YOU DON'T LIKE CHANGE ((TOO OLDSCHOOL)) is so awful.

WHY SO SERIOUS HAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA

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local_dunce

#18 December 30, 2007, 06:26:36 pm

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The battle system was the huge selling point of this game for me and is what kept me playing. The characters were really hollow and weak, the storyline was slow and pretty boring and even a lot of the locations felt like they had no effort put into them. There were some scenes and locations that were pretty cool where you actually felt you could explore them and that was fun but really the whole appeal of this game was just me running from location to location fighting things. I got to some AIRSHIP point in the game and gave up after that because I had got to like level 87 or something and was just one shotting everything and it got boring.

now is the winter of our discontent

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tomohawkjoe

#19 December 30, 2007, 06:29:11 pm

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Quote from: bunnymgilkgwr on December 30, 2007, 06:26:36 pm

The battle system was the huge selling point of this game for me and is what kept me playing. The characters were really hollow and weak, the storyline was slow and pretty boring and even a lot of the locations felt like they had no effort put into them. There were some scenes and locations that were pretty cool where you actually felt you could explore them and that was fun but really the whole appeal of this game was just me running from location to location fighting things. I got to some AIRSHIP point in the game and gave up after that because I had got to like level 87 or something and was just one shotting everything and it got boring.

Try the 122333 challenge. It'll keep things pretty difficult.

you will fail

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UPRC

#20 December 30, 2007, 08:52:06 pm

No, it doesn't stand for anything.
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Quote from: Rowain on December 30, 2007, 06:20:48 pm

This attitude is pretty destructive to the game industry as a whole dude. Like can you not see the inherant problem in that sort of attitude? Would you actually be SATISFIED playing jrpg rehashes for the rest of your GAMING LIFE? Don't like the battle system etc OK, whatever, but hating the game because YOU DON'T LIKE CHANGE ((TOO OLDSCHOOL)) is so awful.

I agree. I'm all for old-school, but without CHANGE and NEW IDEAS, the gaming industry would have died long ago. Change is good.

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