Politics U.S Presidential Primary Thread (Read 20603 times)

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K0LE, if you think USA shouldn't police other countries you're practically sending your country to damnation
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Retarded because it shows how fucked up the voting system is when votes go uncounted. That's a few dozen uncounted votes in just one county. There are around 237 counties in New Hampshire. Hopefully this recount will be done before Super Tuesday...it should be if their estimates are correct. Imagine how big of a blow it would be to Hillary if they found that Obama won.

As for GZ's comment, don't know if that was directed at me or not, but I'm an Obama supporter.

the problem is this wasn't a matter of a few votes being discounted, but something that was CLEARLY a mistake. were it a conspiracy or anything, she'd write: PAUL: 20 or something. but she wrote zero. I mean, obviously SOMEONE who voted for Paul would call the media or something.

it doesn't take much thought to realize that this was a mistake instead of a FUCK PAUL. it also is a statistically insignificant number; margins of error tend to take these kind of mistakes into account, so Paul's total vote percentage won't be affected at all.

basically it's a clear example like GZ said of Paulsie retardation; this was a mistake, almost assuredly in every way (she fixed it within 16 hours when it was brought to her attention) but now they are throwing more money away on a recount, in some desperate way hoping he'll get 3,000 votes that didn't exist prior.

I completely agree with Ron Paul's Ideals.  It's about time that America focused more in it's own interest rather than trying to police other nations.  Cutting systems from the federal government is a great Idea as well.  I mean the government is putting billions of dollars of our tax money to all these organizations that are old and aren't even necessary anymore.  Besides Ron Paul did vote against the Patriot Act, and the Government Regulation of the Internet, both of which affects us internet users!.  Sure he maybe going for a more socialistic approach, but whats so bad about that?  Look at Canada and it's medical system, why do you think so many senior citizens in America cross the border to Canada to get medications.  If we had a better Medicare/medicate system they wouldn't have to go to Canada to get cheaper medications in the first place.

But I can't vote, I'm not a citizen.  And for the first time ever in the 10 years I've lived in America I finally feel the true importance of voting, which some people take for granted at times.

haha what! it's like you took the internet's CRAZY MESSIAH WORSHIP and conformed it to your own beliefs. Paul hates UHC! he wants the free market to deal with it. he also wants all that bullshit alternative medicine to be allowed even though, you know, doesn't work 99.9% of the time but hey stock it next to the condoms and advil!!!

http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2007/11/ron-pauls-record-in-congress.html
http://www.brokenlibrarian.org/ronpaul/
http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=229870
http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=e2f15397-a3c7-4720-ac15-4532a7da84ca

ps I think I've read "Von Mises was a jew so how can Ron Paul be an anti-semite" a thousand times by now.

man why did you post without bothering to respond to all the Ron Paul criticism I and others have leveled in the topic? this kind of post annoys me the most because it just shows the same attitude I dislike in politics; I GOT MY OPINION FUCK CRITICISM OPINIONS ARE MAGIC SHIELDS.
Last Edit: January 13, 2008, 05:39:19 pm by dangerousned
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Sure he maybe going for a more socialistic approach
Huh?

Ron Paul is a libertarian. Libertarianism is kind of like anarchism. (I must admit I didn't even know all that much about it until a while ago; apparently it's predominantly US-centric.)

He's the opposite of a socialist.

but whats so bad about that?
Nothing's wrong with a social government. But if you want one, vote for a democrat! Don't vote for Ron Paul, because he wants to steer America into the opposite direction.

Speaking of which, I have yet to understand why getting rid of stuff like the FDA and education system and social security and the federal reserve and so on would be at all beneficial. Ron Paul's supporters keep gushing about that shit over and over but I have yet to see any of them explain why any of that would be good at all.
I'm also unsure (because, as you say, this isn't explained in detail very often), but I think that the general argument is simple: they say the government cannot be trusted to do an as good job as the free market. In reality, the advantages you gain by increasing the competition over these areas will not outweigh the negative consequences. After all, these are essential services we're talking about here that people cannot go without. You can't trust privatized companies to always do a good job, especially when their services are required by a great part of the population.

For example, what if HIV treatment medication suddenly became ten times as expensive? Think about it for a moment. Yes, we would probably immediately see posts on Digg calling for a worldwide boycott of HIV medication. But in reality, people will keep buying them, because if they don't, they'll die. Would a libertarian government care, or even be able to do anything about that? Maybe they can, you know, I'm not sure; but the point is that a libertarian government, a minimalist government that keeps its hands off of as many things as possible, won't regulate the free market, and we know by know that this will inevitably conclude with the people being impoverished.

In my example, the government could just say "just wait for a different company to start selling HIV medicine". Which can take quite long, especially when you consider that many forms and ingredients of medication are covered by patents. Or maybe someone actually will start a company that sells cheap HIV medicine, but then who's going to be sure they're of good quality?

This is the danger of an unregulated market.
Last Edit: January 13, 2008, 08:21:52 pm by Dada
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i'm still waiting for the internet to announce ron paul's a big prank

That’s right, you have the young gaming with the old(er), white people gaming with black people, men and women, Asian countries gaming with the EU, North Americans gaming with South Americans. Much like world sporting events like the Wolrd Cup, or the Olympics will bring together different nations in friendly competition, (note the recent Asian Cup; Iraq vs. Saudi Arabia, no violence there) we come together. The differences being, we are not divided by our nationalities and we do it 24-7, and on a personal level.

We are a community without borders and without colours, the spirit and diversity of the gaming community is one that should be looked up to, a spirit and diversity other groups should strive toward.
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Quote
haha what! it's like you took the internet's CRAZY MESSIAH WORSHIP and conformed it to your own beliefs. Paul hates UHC! he wants the free market to deal with it. he also wants all that bullshit alternative medicine to be allowed even though, you know, doesn't work 99.9% of the time but hey stock it next to the condoms and advil!!!
Off topic, if by alternative medicine you mean holistic medicine it does work.
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Off topic, if by alternative medicine you mean holistic medicine it does work.

not according to the vast majority of scientific and non-scientific studies done on the vast majority of alternative medicine (such as your much vaunted homeopathy, which comes from India and which I am very personally familiar with, so before you say anything tread lightly little dumby). of course it might work (Hundley ate kelp for heartburn or something on a doctor's recommendation) but the fact that Paul wants the standard of medicine to be lowered to include ALL ALTERNATIVE MEDICINE is ridiculous. I'm not talking to you because you are completely insane but to anyone else reading this topic. Paul wants to remove all government essentially, and neuter everything to a state or non-existent level.

which addresses omeg's point earlier; libertarianism is almost anarchism BUT 1. holds onto a capitalist system and 2. believes for some odd reason, the state government, simply by virtue of being smaller, is better. federalism isn't an issue most other countries have had to face, so it's primarily US centric.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2006/0607.wolfe.html

here's a good article on neo-conservatism fyi, which criticizes libertarianism as a result (since religion/morals is all that separate the two, and as we've seen even that is nothing for Paulsies).
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Well TCM they've been doing it for like 5000 years so it must be of some use.
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people have been doing shit for years that means nothing.

people have been smoking for years it must be of some use.

people have been eating meat for years it must be of some use.

come on.
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Well it is of--some--use, but that doesn't mean it should be used, nor that the reasoning behind its use is any good.
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I think Ron Paul's stance on Department of Education is the most offensive. It abolishes government regulation of what is taught in school, AND how available school is to people, especially those of low income. I'm here at university on SOME government funding, and RON PAUL REVOLUTION V FOR VENDETTA would take out government support of educational funding for ME as well as a lot of my friends.

Quote
Well TCM they've been doing it for like 5000 years so it must be of some use.
You CAN'T be serious, I know you don't believe in God and people always say things like "well people have believed in god for thousands of years, it must be true lalala", you know that's a junk principle, just apply that same principle to TCM and the rest of junk medicines out there.
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the problem is this wasn't a matter of a few votes being discounted, but something that was CLEARLY a mistake. were it a conspiracy or anything, she'd write: PAUL: 20 or something. but she wrote zero. I mean, obviously SOMEONE who voted for Paul would call the media or something.

it doesn't take much thought to realize that this was a mistake instead of a FUCK PAUL. it also is a statistically insignificant number; margins of error tend to take these kind of mistakes into account, so Paul's total vote percentage won't be affected at all.

basically it's a clear example like GZ said of Paulsie retardation; this was a mistake, almost assuredly in every way (she fixed it within 16 hours when it was brought to her attention) but now they are throwing more money away on a recount, in some desperate way hoping he'll get 3,000 votes that didn't exist prior.

It isn't just the few miscounted votes though. From what I remember, Obama had more votes when they were hand counted and Hillary had more when they used the computerized voting system. I honestly don't give a fuck about Ron Paul, but I do agree with Kucinich that it seems odd that the results would be so dramatically different from the predictions (the Obama vs. Hillary stuff). Either way, why does it matter if they recount? If the votes were counted correctly the first time and the recount confirms it, then it'll instill confidence in computerized voting systems. If they differ, then we'll know something's up and to be more careful next time. It's a win-win either way. Sure it'll cost money, but it's nothing when you consider that the election will determine the fate of the U.S. for the next 4 years.
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hundley took kelp to cure his acid reflux against his doctor's orders, if I recall correctly. It largely depends on the doctor exactly how alternative the treatments can go; the doctors my family visit know about herbs and alternative medicine and will give you an educated opinion on whatever best choice is. some of that stuff does work, and as a future doctor I think it's important for someone in the profession to have a good knowledge of the available cures within their field. what paul's suggesting however is the dumbest shit and would probably kill tons of people, especially without the FDA to regulate things. let the free market decide which medicines work!!


paulsies say hillary won in NH because she rigged the diebolds
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You CAN'T be serious, I know you don't believe in God and people always say things like "well people have believed in god for thousands of years, it must be true lalala", you know that's a junk principle, just apply that same principle to TCM and the rest of junk medicines out there
I don't get what you mean?  Basically, they believe it works so that's why they use it???

Actually, I've seen it work so yeah.  I could be misunderstanding your post though.
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It isn't just the few miscounted votes though. From what I remember, Obama had more votes when they were hand counted and Hillary had more when they used the computerized voting system. I honestly don't give a fuck about Ron Paul, but I do agree with Kucinich that it seems odd that the results would be so dramatically different from the predictions (the Obama vs. Hillary stuff). Either way, why does it matter if they recount? If the votes were counted correctly the first time and the recount confirms it, then it'll instill confidence in computerized voting systems. If they differ, then we'll know something's up and to be more careful next time. It's a win-win either way. Sure it'll cost money, but it's nothing when you consider that the election will determine the fate of the U.S. for the next 4 years.

problem is those stats of hand counting were reported by Paulsies to begin with, and Obama people aren't the ones demanding recounts, but Paulsies.

the Obama camp knows that even if they manage to win this by margin of error, it's not going to be spun into any kind of a good thing. the point of winning NH wasn't delegates (which they are winning in) but momentum, and if he won it now, people might turn out in SC to vote for Hillary out of pity!

that's the prevailing theory as to why she won NH anyways.

hundley took kelp to cure his acid reflux against his doctor's orders, if I recall correctly. It largely depends on the doctor exactly how alternative the treatments can go; the doctors my family visit know about herbs and alternative medicine and will give you an educated opinion on whatever best choice is. some of that stuff does work, and as a future doctor I think it's important for someone in the profession to have a good knowledge of the available cures within their field. what paul's suggesting however is the dumbest shit and would probably kill tons of people, especially without the FDA to regulate things. let the free market decide which medicines work!!

oh, my mistake. I didn't know who told him KELP so. and yeah, I'm all in favor of alternative treatments, but I also believe for the most part they should be ALTERNATIVE treatment, not alternatives to treatment, which is what most of the curebies (hehehhehehe this isn't hte right term aspergers unite) tend to espouse.

I don't get what you mean?  Basically, they believe it works so that's why they use it???

Actually, I've seen it work so yeah.  I could be misunderstanding your post though.

1. yes. that is why they use it. cultural belief is almost all there is behind holistic medicine, since most drug companies would die to have perfect headache cures they could market to some freegan losers as natural. your argument was IT'S OLD IT MUST WORK, which makes no sense.
2. I know this from more first hand experience then whatever you've seen, since I have seen people in India die from homeopathy (well not seen them die but like, heard they were doing it and then a month after I leave they are dead)! there is a difference between Hundley acid reflux and cancer/pain relief treatments and you just don't want to admit that by and large alternative medicine does not market itself as an alternative treatment but an alternative TO treatment, claiming that you must do or take x to stay healthy.

I hate Penn and Teller's Bullshit, but they did have a very good segment on this where some chiropracters were doing chiropracty on babies.

also to those of you who hate this derail, go ahead and post about politics but I don't see this thread picking up till next primary!

alternative medicine wooot: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eben_Byers
http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Cancer/eschar.html
Last Edit: January 14, 2008, 04:47:46 pm by dangerousned
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I understand what you are saying...

I've seen people die from western medicine too so I guess it happens with any medicinal system.

Ok sorry guys back on topic:
Go Kucinich I guess
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Hey guys the Michigan primary is going on right now.

It's not really anything for the democrats since there are no delegates at stake for them, but this is important for the republicans. Romney is winning in exit polls according to drudgereport
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Hey guys the Michigan primary is going on right now.

Romney is winning in exit polls according to drudgereport

Yeah, we know how reliable exit polls are.   :argh: New Hampshire  :argh:

Anyways I'm more interested in the Democratic debate tonight.  Edwards can't be backing Obama tonight if he wants to have any hope of winning Nevada or South Carolina.  So it should be interesting to see if he goes on the offensive against both front runners.
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Romney 37.41%
McCain 30.86%
Huckabee 15.85%
Paul 6.03%
Thompson 4.18%
Giuliani 2.75%
Hunter 0.34%
Other 2%

9% reporting

edit: already called for Romney

the gop race is gonna be a huge clusterfuck now
Last Edit: January 16, 2008, 02:08:55 am by Ryan
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come on [uncomfirmed] beat hillary so I can lol.
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http://iemweb.biz.uiowa.edu/quotes/Nomination08_Quotes.html
Hey this is just something that's fun to look at. It's basically a market that people put some money on who's going to win the election, so it is pretty representative of popular opinion. Uh so now it isn't as interesting as people are going to be following the media and then the outcomes of caucuses more than any other factor (so when Obama won he goes up and when Clinton won New Hampshire she went up, but before it people were buying Obama as he was expected to win). But if you look back a few months at the republicans the fun thing is the red line which represents basically someone else. Yea for awhile it was winning, by a lot, which is pretty incredible. And Thompson enters and it plummets but after being completely unimpressive he plummets and it begins to rise sharply until Huckabee comes along and finally kills the lines.

Yeah pretty much useless now though and just fun to look at, see what happened to see candidates in the long run.
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