eat a dick omeg

I wasn't referring to that. What I mean is that it matters whether a candidate most accurately represents you (or your ideology) and will actually be able to do something for you when the possibility arises. It shouldn't make a difference if a particular candidate is "just a typical democrat", when that happens to be your exact political alignment.

Not that it matters, though, since the candidates are different from one another, and I wouldn't exactly be able to define what an "average democratic point of view" is, anyway.

EDIT: by the way, don't you hate it when you make a big and important post, but then someone makes an insignificant post on a new page right afterwards, knocking you out of sight?

oh okay I thought you were saying WHO CARES IF THEY ARE ALL THE SAME when they aren't at all.

anyways Ron Paul might come in 3rd in Iowa. of course Iowa's primary turnout is usually 6.2%, and if you split that in half, for democrats and republicans, and you factor in Paul's whopping 9%, that's an amazing .28% support from a state.

here's the denying gay people link: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d096:h.r.7955:

man where is the athiest/agnostic, pro marijuana reform, pro gay/lesbian rights, pro-abortion, anti-war candidate

why isnt there one of those (fuck you jerry falwell and pat robertson for buttfucking the collective american thought process)

kucinich was it but he's kind of goofty.

man where is the athiest/agnostic, pro marijuana reform, pro gay/lesbian rights, pro-abortion, anti-war candidate

why isnt there one of those (fuck you jerry falwell and pat robertson for buttfucking the collective american thought process)

In all seriousness, is there a candidate like this?  If so, vote for him (or her).

flag burning is pretty disrespectful though and is illegal here. but flags and nationality is pretty important here so maybe thats why. i dont mind the law at all. a couple of years ago some important television comedian/critic burned the american flag live and while i guess its an effective way of saying something, its extremely disrespectful its not like we imprison them for doing that, but they get a fine (the amount depending on your wage, like most fines here are)

flag burning is a perfectly valid form of free political speech.

first off the question is what someone respects. if you believe a flag is a physical representation of a country, then why not burn a flag in the form of protest? look at the United States for example during the Vietnam War. flag burning occured because kids were drafted into a war they were dying over. a war very few peopel cared about. DRAFTED, okay. they didn't choose to be there at all. why not express your contempt towards the country by burning a flag?

see, the core of this issue is not a matter of respect but rights. the American tradition has always been proud and individualistic; there was never a serf based economy in the US (unless you count the disenfranchised black slaves, but that's a different idea entirely, which I could elaborate on). the question is; why remove the right to burn the flag? because you see, a flag represents a country at the moment. not the past or the future, but at the moment. if it did represent past misdeeds, we'd burn most of the flags in the world every day.

no, flag burning is a way of expressing dissatisfaction with the present state. it has nothing to do with hating the country, but of expressing that the country has lost its way. a flag is a piece of cloth. it is the meaning that flag can take in current atmosphere that people who burn flags take issue with. why curtail someone's right to express dissent via symbolism?

nationalism is a joke. one's pride in a country should not be because it is united under a flag, but because the values of that person and of the people around them are represented by that flag. if those values become effete, then burning the flag that is now corrupted is a valid form of protest.

also: flag burning in the US, were it to be a crime, would in fact be a THOUGHT CRIME lol. flags are SUPPOSED to be burned to be dispensed of. ergo, making it a criminal act would be akin to punishing the thought behind the crime. also, unlike other "selective rights", every citizen is entitled (and it is implied, obligated) to burn a flag to get rid of it. the only difference between burning a flag for removal and for protest is thought, so most people would be loath to accept that.

i dont know how anyone can be for making flag burning illegal for any purpose

i dont know how anyone can be for making flag burning illegal for any purpose

eh, I'm not an expert by any means, but I'd assume some countries just had it in their initial constitutions or laws or whatever and they just kind of get grandfathered in and no one really gives a shit about it to fight for it. it's not a form of a speech that is ever exercised really.

wikipedia has an interesting little summary of flag burning: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_desecration

i had heard that you're meant to bury the flag in america once it gets worn out, and wikipedia is inconclusive: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Flag_Code

also flag burning is a form of treason?

maybe you guys should stop your free speech spree rite now because USA has proven that uttering certain things can get you locked up for a long time over and over again!! i do understand the argument but there's no reason to go WE ARE THE FREE SPEAKERS, WE SPEAK OUR MINDS!! etc

and a flag doesnt represent the government but the country so why should critisism of a government come through the form of a national insult

by burning say an AMERICAN flag you dont say you're against the government but rather against everything the flag represents; every single person and idea in that country. it's respectless and disgusting.

but maybe thats a cultural difference between us, im not conservative in any way and ive taken part in rallies where flags have been burned (mostly israeli and american) and i always thought it was a dumb thing to do because a patriotic israeli or american that does his best to work against the actions that the flag burners despise could/would/might be just as offended as someone spearheading such actions. its a disgusting and generalizing action.

maybe to you the flag represents the government but it sure as hell doesn't to anyone i know


so except for a broken free speech i dont really see the arguments for it sorry for disrailing

The Freedom of Speech is nothing more but the right to the freedom of expression, the right to speak freely without censorship, seek/receive information/ideas.

However, the Freedom of Expression can be limited on a state by state basis, if they can demonstrate that it is necessary. See: yelling FIRE in a crowded theater, saying you have a bomb in an airport....all those are necessary limitations of an Americans freedom of expression since yelling FIRE in a theater can cause a panic and lead to people getting hurt, and saying a bomb at an airport the same.

That isn't to say that your actual Freedom of Expression is TRULY limited, are you prevented from yelling I HAVE A BOMB at an airport? No. Will you get punished for it? Sure. Is that right? Well, I think even in a perfect world you can never obtain a true state of Freedom of Expression, simply because some things should have some form of punishment on them, hate speech, anything that can cause a mass panic, perjury, stuff like that...

also flag burning is a form of treason?

I do not think it is treason.

IIRC, flag burning in USA works like this:
-Several places do it ritually (The American legion, Veterans, etc)
-You bury it / burn it otherwise (but you can send it to one of the above places to have them burn it)

It is perfectly legal to burn the USA Flag in America in your own yard, however you probably wouldn't want to do it now (9/11 and all that...people are still way too patriotic over that imo). Our Flag Code is fucked up, we break it all the time anyways. You aren't supposed to wear any part of the flag on a costume, and yet athletes do this ALL THE TIME.

So yeah...

when a country has a law against burning the flag it is saying "YOU WILL BE LOYAL OR ELSE" and i find that kind of shit very scary! i wouldn't burn a flag just because it would do more harm than good if you were trying to get a message across, but there isn't anything in the universe which is above being criticised or even insulted when the situation merits it. nationalism has always seemed pretty similar to a lot of the most horrible aspects of religion to me. whenever someone says "i am proud to be a citizen of (x)" they either come across as stupid, having not really thought what they are saying through, or hostile.

and a flag doesnt represent the government but the country so why should critisism of a government come through the form of a national insult ​

i only think you would get offended by this if you considered yourself a norweigian, or brit or american or whatever high above anything else. like if that was how you defined yourself. i don't want to get patronising, but we're all people first, and getting offended because someone burned the flag which represents the country you happened to be born in, is pretty stupid. and it's equivocal to things like gangs getting all pissy cos someone said east side boyz are faggots.

what i'm saying is national pride is stupid.

here in the usa we see flags everywhere and if you're in public schools you pledge allegiance to them every day!