Topic: If this doesn't scare you, it should... (Read 5804 times)

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Who uses Yahoo! anyways? It's so 1996.
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Steve Ballmer has said he won't take no for an answer on this one.

Did the death threat claim Ballmer made about the Google owner ever go anywhere?  According to a former Microsoft employee, Ballmer tossed  a chair across a room and screamed out "I'm gonna fucking kill that guy!!121"

I live near Seattle so every time someone mentions Microsoft we laugh jovially about it then carry on about our business.
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For the person that asked why Microsoft hasn't made a search engine... they have, and it has been out for years.
Ever heard of MSNSearch?  It gives more academic results than Google, and the image search engine is better, yet I still usually go with Google when doing school research.
Also, I've never had a problem with Microsoft Office (Word/Excel/Powerpoint/etc.), and I'm happy with all the products they make, so them buying out Yahoo really doesn't make a difference.  Why did you say they are breaking the law?  It seems the only time they did that was when they created a monopoly (which is actually good business, but the government made it illegal).  How is buying Yahoo breaking the law?

Also, fun fact, I beat Steve Ballmer's kid in a soccer game once!  I remember Ballmer was fuming.  It felt nice (even though I was only like 13 at the time and didn't know who he was).
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If by "good business" you mean "good for the business that attains monopoly status," then yes, it is.  It's not good for the consumer, though.  It leads to stagnation through the lack of competition, and to exploitation.  That's why the government made it illegal.  Capitalism is supposed to be about the betterment of both individuals and society as a whole through competition and the consumer's freedom of choice, not about a few powerful individuals forcing their wishes upon the public.  (The United States fought a war to be free of that way of life, and quickly learned that businessmen could be almost as bad as kings, if we weren't careful...)
Last Edit: February 02, 2008, 06:44:12 am by masonwheeler
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Okay.

Why the fuck should this scare me again?
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Okay.

Why the fuck should this scare me again?
Well, it shouldn't scare you, since you didn't read the topic, or did you?

Maybe "scare" is not the right word, but it's distressing that a convicted monopolist is trying to take over a monstrous company. They want to have an online presence and couldn't build one themselves, so they've decided to just buy one that does work. I don't have high hopes for Microsoft's ability to build and expand on Yahoo's emporium.
Last Edit: February 02, 2008, 02:33:17 pm by Dada
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Why should I be worried about Microsoft in the first place? Admittedly I really don't know their history or anything but uh, I really don't think they're a threat to anything other than their business rivals.
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man i haven't even heard the word yahoo in like 2 years. i totally forgot it existed.
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Why should I be worried about Microsoft in the first place? Admittedly I really don't know their history or anything but uh, I really don't think they're a threat to anything other than their business rivals.
Hoo boy.  Where to begin?  If you study their history a bit, a different pattern will emerge.  And right now they're at the forefront of the development of one of the most dangerous technological "advances" of our age, called "trusted computing."  It's being advertised as a way to make your computer more secure by using hardware-based strong encryption, but analysts who look at it say its most obvious uses are creating a truly secure DRM system that can't be cracked, promoting vendor lock-in, allowing programmers to remote-control their programs on your computer, and using a "trust certification" system to stifle the growth of open-source software.

The remote-control ability is particularly frightening.  You won't be in charge of your own computer anymore.  If someone writes a Word document containing stuff that Microsoft (or some government or rich individual that Microsoft's friendly with) doesn't like, they'll be able to remotely command Word over the Internet to not open that document anymore, and nobody will ever be able to read it again.  And if a virus ever makes it through the trust certification process somehow, and gains more trusted access to your system than your anti-virus software... use your imagination.  (Which isn't as impossible as it sounds.  All it would take is one person planted in the right job by a business rival or foreign government.  Imagine this: 10 years from now, the President of Iran could well have two metaphorical "big red buttons on his desk."  One of them launches the missiles at the USA, the other activates the command to break all of our "trusted" computers.  Which one would end up doing more damage?  It's a toss-up, when you think about it...)
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Uh...

Where in the fuck does the President of Iran even enter into this topic?
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The main thing I walked away with from that article is that there is a company called Dinosaur Securities. DINOSAUR SECURITIES. Also like the only people that use yahoo now are old people and kids who know nothing about computers and the school library has it as the homepage.
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Uh...

Where in the fuck does the President of Iran even enter into this topic?
The whole Iran thing was a bit of a far-fetched example, but you shouldn't dismiss masonwheeler's argument so easily. "Trusted Computing" (TC) could easily mean the end of your control over your computer, as you will no longer be the supreme authority on what happens to your computer. Should the RIAA ever decide, in collusion with Microsoft, that ripping CDs should no longer be allowed, then that would become possible with the help of TC.

There's a bunch of other serious concerns on Wikipedia. One particularly interesting quote: "TC can support remote censorship [...] In general, digital objects created using TC systems remain under the control of their creators, rather than under the control of the person who owns the machine on which they happen to be stored (as at present) [...] So someone who writes a paper that a court decides is defamatory can be compelled to censor it — and the software company that wrote the word processor could be ordered to do the deletion if she refuses. Given such possibilities, we can expect TC to be used to suppress everything from pornography to writings that criticise political leaders."

Software blocks can be hacked around pretty easily, as we know by now, but hardware blocks might be a lot more difficult.
Last Edit: February 02, 2008, 04:18:48 pm by Dada
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Far-fetched, perhaps, but possible.  Ten years ago, the idea of using a commercial airliner as a flying bomb to blow up a building was the stuff of fiction, straight out of a Tom Clancy novel.  Then someone actually did it.  We live in "far-fetched" times...
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The whole Iran thing was a bit of a far-fetched example, but you shouldn't dismiss masonwheeler's argument so easily. "Trusted Computing" (TC) could easily mean the end of your control over your computer, as you will no longer be the supreme authority on what happens to your computer. Should the RIAA ever decide, in collusion with Microsoft, that ripping CDs should no longer be allowed, then that would become possible with the help of TC.

There's a bunch of other serious concerns on Wikipedia. One particularly interesting quote: "TC can support remote censorship [...] In general, digital objects created using TC systems remain under the control of their creators, rather than under the control of the person who owns the machine on which they happen to be stored (as at present) [...] So someone who writes a paper that a court decides is defamatory can be compelled to censor it — and the software company that wrote the word processor could be ordered to do the deletion if she refuses. Given such possibilities, we can expect TC to be used to suppress everything from pornography to writings that criticise political leaders."

Software blocks can be hacked around pretty easily, as we know by now, but hardware blocks might be a lot more difficult.
Dada, I'm aware of the possibility of the consequences trusted computing presents in regards to censorship and restricted personal control. I was just pointing out masonwheeler's really, really large exaggeration. It's fine to talk about the likely dangers of TC, but when someone makes a statement like that it's time to help them back on board the logic train.
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I was just pointing out masonwheeler's really, really large exaggeration.
His arguements are ridicilous. It's pretty much "s-such possiblty.....life isn dangre...." all over again!

I mean, what does even TC have to do with the issue of Microsoft buying Yahoo! 
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I mean, what does even TC have to do with the issue of Microsoft buying Yahoo!
Nothing, really.  That got off-topic.  Someone said Microsoft isn't a threat to anyone but their own business rivals, and I explained why that's not true.  But anyone who thinks that my statement regarding the potential that TC has to endanger us is a "crazy exaggeration" needs to spend a bit of time examining computer security reports.  Look at what people are already starting to accomplish with ordinary, non-trusted viruses and worms that the user is still able to deal with relatively easily.  Then just imagine the computer trusting the virus more than it trusts the user.  That's what "trusted computing" does.  It obeys the program instead of the owner.  Once you let local control out of your hands, it's impossible to know whose hands it will end up in.

Is it unlikely that something that bad will end up happening?  Yeah, probably.  Will it ever happen?  I certainly hope not.  Impossible? Wild? Crazy?  Not in the slightest, unfortunately.
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I mean, what does even TC have to do with the issue of Microsoft buying Yahoo! 
Microsoft is a gigantic convicted monopolist. Anything that extends their reach beyond reasonable limits is bad. TC itself doesn't really have anything to do with them buying Yahoo, but you should understand the consequences of a powerful Microsoft. It's for this reason that companies are required to abide extra rules that prevent them from misusing their position in the market.

Anyway, my concerns are more related to them messing up the services that Yahoo currently offers than what was just mentioned about TC.
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Well, everything Microsoft touches on the Internet ends up going downhill fast.  Yahoo already fucking blows, so this will probably be the thing that gets it shut down for good.  

I'm really amazed anyone uses Yahoo anymore.  Their movies site is pretty good, but I only go there when I forget that IMDB exists.
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Also like the only people that use yahoo now are old people and kids who know nothing about computers and the school library has it as the homepage.
Yahoo.com is apparently the most visited site on the internet.