edit: also yeah the driving is pretty poor. most cars handle really uh... haphazardly and you go flying like 900 feet away from the car on impact with the smallest thing.

I don't understand how you manage to do this! I tend to drive really fast almost all of the time and I have flown through the windshield like 3 or 4 times.

Anyway, after having played the game for about 12-13 hours, it's hard to describe how impressed I'm by it. I'm glad that I'm not a huge fan of GTA so I wasn't really looking forward to GTA4 all that much, and I wasn't expecting much more than what San Andreas was. Now, I can't get enough of the game and I already think it's definitely among the best games I have ever played. Man, I don't think it's exaggerating to call this game phenomenal because that's what it is. Everything, everything, about GTA4 is top-notch. I think I'm the most impressed about the sheer amount of detail in it. Liberty City is so well designed and has so much detail and life in it that I don't even know how Rockstar had the time to pull this off, because there isn't a single other game which comes even close to the city. And of course there's more to the level of detail, like the AI and how you see all kinds of random things happening around you all the time and they are truly all unique and it actually feels like a real city. Like some review stated (forgot which one), for every detail you try to describe, there's a dozen you miss. There are also some scripted events (in missions) which are a nice addition too. And there's so much more, simply how detailed the graphics are, the quality of animation, the day and night system, weather effects, everything. Impressive and not only from a technical point of view, it's a fantastic world to play in.

The physics are another really impressive thing about GTA4 and everything just works perfectly. Different cars and vehichles behave in different ways and driving actually is a bit more difficult than it was before, I think. It takes some time to get used to some vehichles but once you play enough, you will appreciate the way the vehichles behave. Coupled with physics, another thing which makes the city more interesting and fun to explore is how you can climb over fences, climb on buildings and just pretty much climb anywhere as long as you can reach the place. There are a lot of neat hidden locations and it's just great to explore, discover random locations, play minigames, find treasures and so on.

The cellphone is also a really nice addition because there's always something to do and therefore it has less random exploring than other GTA games unless that's what you want to do. And the internet, it's hilarious. Or hell, not just the internet, the game is full of comedy and some nice parody too. Radio stations have some really funny and interesting commercials and then there's TV shows and theater and probably more stuff I don't even know about yet.

And that's just, you know, all the random stuff which makes this game so good. The main story itself is very interesting and GTA4 has one of the best cast of characters ever. There are so many good and hilarious characters that it's awesome. The writing is terrific, the cutscenes are among the best in the industry and the voice acting is just as good. I have also noticed that when you replay missions, sometimes the characters you are with say something completely different than before which is pretty nice and keeps things fresh. And even though the game starts out pretty slow, I think there's been plenty of variety in the missions I have done so far and some of the missions have just been really cool.

So yeah, pretty much everything about GTA4 is simply praiseworthy. And it's equally impressive how Rockstar have managed to fit this all in one game, in such a huge world, and how perfectly it works. There are some minor flaws like the camera system can be a bit annoying indoors or that the cover system isn't always completely accurate (I still use it all the time and it's a great addition) but no game is perfect and I think GTA4 is one of the most polished games I have played. I can completely understand why it's getting such high reviews and I think it deserves the reviews it get, and I really couldn't believe I would like it this much.

Alsooooooooooo

The random things which keep happening can be pretty hilarious. Like, this dude was waiting for the light to turn green and I stole his car. But I couldn't get away in time and he tried to take it back and started to attack me. At the same time, some car just drove behind the car I was trying to steal and saw how that guy attacked me and the driver got out of the car. At that time, I thought he was going to attack me but he actually attacked the other guy because he thought I was being robbed. Then, the police arrived and when they tried to arrest the dude who tried to help me, I stole his car and it was just pretty awesome. It's impressive because these random things seriously just keep happening and they are all different. One time I was standing still next to some guy who was talking to a phone. After the call was over, he tried talking to me but I just stood there because I was eating and didn't have controller in my hands. He kept waiting for my reply and after a short while, he talked twice more with a more and more annoyed tone and eventually attacked me because he got angry.

Also, I'm seriously in love with the city. For example, it's awesome how different the second city part is from the first one. And the first one already had a lot of variety and was huuuuuge. It was great driving in the second part of the city for the first time and seeing all the scyscrapers, huge amount of traffic and basically a completely different kind of city.

yeah so i found a cord and played it a bit.  i'm like five missions in and idk, it's alright.  the city feels more alive, although it's disappointing you can't have conversations with random people; they still seem like husks.  i'm not crazy about the controls, either.  they're better than they were in the previous games, but they still feel clunky in combat, and too often in a hand to hand fight i will be trying to kick someone who's on the ground while i'm locked onto them, and just kick thin air half the time.  it's definitely not up to par with an action game, but it's better than before, i suppose.  also, i'd agree that the driving controls leave a lot to be desired.  the controls feel too loose, and BRAKING doesn't seem especially effective (as in, reverse slows you down quicker, but you can't turn well while doing it, and braking barely slows you down at all, and regardless of how fast i'm going i seem to 180 every time i try to turn a little bit while braking).  braking's the main annoyance, because there's a fuckload of turns, and without being able to effectively take them at decent speeds, i can't seem to go that fast.  is this anyone else's experience?

i haven't gotten to see any of the RANDOM SHIT people do, but the city itself is cool.  i don't feel like the mission structure has been a huge departure from previous iterations so far, but they're better than they've been in the past, in terms of variety.  one thing that annoyed me so far was having to repeat an entire mission because i got roman's fucking taxi cab stuck in a staircase and couldn't move it or get back in it to drive him back to his garage.

panda when you are coming up to a turn just release the accelerator and use the L trigger reverse to slow you down so you don't go shooting past the turn, you can the just hit the accelerator again and take the turn at a little slower speed but it's quicker than slamming on the handbrake, flying past the turn crashing into a lamp post, reversing to turn round and doing the same thing trying to go back the other way.

So use the L trigger to slow yourself down BEFORE you get to the turn, and then accelerate again to go round the turn. It's the quickest way I found. Also give me your gamertag so we can play online I think.

panda when you are coming up to a turn just release the accelerator and use the L trigger reverse to slow you down so you don't go shooting past the turn, you can the just hit the accelerator again and take the turn at a little slower speed but it's quicker than slamming on the handbrake, flying past the turn crashing into a lamp post, reversing to turn round and doing the same thing trying to go back the other way.

So use the L trigger to slow yourself down BEFORE you get to the turn, and then accelerate again to go round the turn. It's the quickest way I found. Also give me your gamertag so we can play online I think.

yeah i get that, it's just when there are turns so often, it's impossible to build up any decent amount of speed before having to slow down in anticipation for the next turn.  realism wasn't something i was looking for in the city driving of a gta game!  like you can clip a mailbox or something and go spiraling out of control at minimal speeds.  it's nuts.  i'm honestly sort of at a loss as to what they were going for with the controls here.

also marcus, i noticed that the cars you end up chasing are subject to the same annoying physics, but at this point they seem to at least be better drivers than me.  hopefully not for long but w/e!

thanks for the braking tip, though.  i had found that both brakes alone took an insane amount of time to bring me to a stop (rushing past turns sometimes etc).  hopefully that'll help.

Drifting: The Mario Kart physics are gone.  You cannot drift at stupidly high speeds without spinning out of control.  To effectively drift, use the regular brake BEFORE you come to your turn.  When you're near the turn, let go of the accelerator, turn in the direction your drifting, tap the handbrake for less than a second, and you should spin in that direction.  Before you reach the 90 degree point, pull in the OPPOSITE direction of your drift to level yourself out.

Yeah, this is what I do with drifting too. I have also noticed that with some (especially fast cars) it helps to use the regular brake right after using the handbrake and you can still drift in corners with somewhat high speeds, it makes the drift end sooner.

Fun Fact: In addition to the cool AI it also applies to drivers.  If you shoot at a chasing vehicle (mainly cops), the driver will actually swerve around to avoid getting hit.  Civilian drivers will instantly speed up and drive recklessly to get away from you or they'll abandon their vehicles.  Use this to create barriers behind you.

Yeah, I have also noticed that chases are so much better and more interesting in this game and there are cool tricks you can do.

the 360 has triggers!  i'll try screwing around with the control setup, though.  idk the physics shit is nice, and what ds said about car chases being a lot more interesting/open-ended is also good, but it seems like a pretty unnecessary move away from arcade-style controls, given the type of game it is, and the environment you're driving in.

Hey I got some tips too.

ALWAYS try and fight your way out of any situation. Even if it's just one star it's better to fight the cops than to run.

NEVER take cover. You're a lot less likely to be hit when standing in the middle of a road than ducked behind a mailbox. Just take aim and start firing.

NEVER brake. Just jam on the accelerator and let it rip. You can do what I do and tie an elastic band around the right trigger and that way it leaves you with an extra finger for extra shooting and other misc. activities.

hope i've helped 

Alright, about two hours ago I played some Free roam online and all of sudden this weird guy with a grey name parked right next to me. It turns out to be scubacoaster.

We happily drove around the city until some guy landed with a chopper next to us, basically telling us to join him. He then flew all the way to the airport and dropped us off next to the real badass choppers and we took one each. I dunno about scubacoaster but I waved him good bye and flew off.

But... something changed after that. The chopper seemed to have changed him. Whenever I parked next to him to say 'hello' with my horn he quickly pulled his UZI and killed me I decided something had to be done about it so I chased him around the city for a while but the bugger always managed to kill me.

Oh well, it was good fun seeing a familiar face in the game!

... next time, bunny, next time....

The guy with the purple name was grim and the guy with the orange name was Lars, also I had to keep killing you guy because you kept trying to shoot me and run me over!!! But yeah the cruising was pretty cool, if people weren't all trying to kill each other so much.

Haha, lars was the orange guy trying to get the achievement? Man, I tried to help him but he shot me as well.

what achievement?

I was just shooting everyone I could see...

Jacob's the best.

I'm assuming you haven't met Brucie yet?

Does anyone know if it's possible in multiplayer freemode to play some pool and bowling and stuff? I haven't managed to get anyone to stop shooting long enough to find out. Also I pulled a Lars, dragged Liman as high as I could up into the sky in a chopper and bailed on him. It was the funniest part of the game so far.