Well, the Joker as a character wasn't very fleshed out, I mean, he didn't have many speaking roles apart from general villain bits. Like at the charity dinner for Harvey, the Joker just comes in, says some stuff about wanting to find Batman, then gets beaten up.

man what? the joker had some pretty FAN-FUCKING-TASTIC character development. Jesus dude, at first he is kind of this random villain but as we progress he slowly digs deeper into his reasoning behind his actions and slowly unmasks his insanity bit by bit. In the majority of his scenes we slowly but surely delv deeper and deeper into his psychy and his thoughts on his eternal struggle with batman.

this is a way shitty post but you are so wrong i am kind of mad. also you say that not liking batman is a flaw but DID YOU NOT LISTEN TO THE MOVIE. that is the purpose. we hate batman man. either he is out saving the day as some vigilante dressed in a bat suit who we hunt and gets basically NO THANKS or he has to play the spoiled rich guy. we aren't really supposed to identify with batman on many levels! his isolation and un-likeablity is a big part of the character. in fact, when we do [relate ][/relate], it's when he's alone or just with alfred. when he can be himself basically. for instance, when he's talking about his thoughts on racheal to alfred i think he comes across as a very sympathetic character and i was able to empathize with him!

but what im mainly trying to say is that we are not supposed to like batman, this is pretty obvious

you are like the most wrong guy ever

what a shite post but i got across what i wanted

I didn't like the way the movie referred to Batman as 'The Batman' all the time.

what?? you're an idiot. he is THE BATMAN

also yeah i agree with the great terror's review in a lot of ways. the absolute BIGGEST PROBLEM in this movie for me was rachel. i loved harvey dent's trasnformation and it worked for me because i imagined what rachel meant to him. the problem was that they didn't SHOW what she meant to him. she was pretty much a typical trophy girlfriend (and worse because she wasnt good looking)

Now I'm no expert on Batman BUT:


1. Whats up with Scarecrow? Why was he even in the movie? Why is he a sweaty drug dealer, like he looks like he's all doped up?

2. That sonar thing was so STUPID. I guess it is supposed to be about how in the US the various agencies tap phones to catch terrorists or whatever they do but COME ON. It was like a one time deal, he deviced the system to catch joker and SPECIFICALLY joker through jokers voice if its heard on any of the phones so it can be triangled (whatever the term is). But the guy is like NONO THIS IS INHUMANE YOU CANNOT DO THIS THIS IS TOO MUCH POWER. Please. Theres like 36980 screens open flashing and causing epilepsy what the fuck would he be even spying?

3. Why do the chinese police just stand around in awe for 30 seconds when Bats shoots out the balloon thing?

4. Why do the cops not fight back in any way when they are escorting Dent? And who wrote the horrible one liners from the generic cop #345? That was like the worst shit ever.

5. Dent takes off his safety belt and shoots the driver. Smooth move there. It felt like the entire scene was built around HEH... YOUR DRIVER AINT SO LUCKY eventhough it made no sense to shoot the driver without having any plan how to bail out. Or did he jump out because if he did I didn't see that.

6. Batman can turn on the sonar eyes at will but cant turn them off? Even Fox cant turn them off remotely?

7. The voice. I get it that its there because he wants to mask his identity and to be more intimidating but its so overdone and he sounds like he has just ran a marathon and smoked 30 cigarettes every day for the past 30 years.

8. The movie is too long and it feels like they threw in every idea they could think and even with, what, over 2 hours or whatever, they still didn't have enough time to make it all fit.



Overall, I guess its a good/ok movie but its one of those movies that I can't watch more than once because its just too long. It certainly isn't the best movie ever and for me it didn't live up to the hype. Also about Ledger, everyone keeps raving about his performance but I didn't see it, how is he better than all the rest? I mean they are all great actors sure but is Ledger supposed to be EXTRAORDINARY good in this? Maybe I'm just a huge ass but I would say his untimely demise is what gives him most points here.

What I thougth was really really great and well done was the Two-Face make up with the eye and I can't think was it like CG or just some makeup or what the fuck? It was impressive.

5. Dent takes off his safety belt and shoots the driver. Smooth move there. It felt like the entire scene was built around HEH... YOUR DRIVER AINT SO LUCKY eventhough it made no sense to shoot the driver without having any plan how to bail out. Or did he jump out because if he did I didn't see that.

no dude he puts it on (he was previously unbuckled) in preperation for shooting the driver

no dude he puts it on (he was previously unbuckled) in preperation for shooting the driver

Cute, the movie is also giving security advices to kids. Buckle up!

1. Whats up with Scarecrow? Why was he even in the movie? Why is he a sweaty drug dealer, like he looks like he's all doped up?

2. That sonar thing was so STUPID. I guess it is supposed to be about how in the US the various agencies tap phones to catch terrorists or whatever they do but COME ON. It was like a one time deal, he deviced the system to catch joker and SPECIFICALLY joker through jokers voice if its heard on any of the phones so it can be triangled (whatever the term is). But the guy is like NONO THIS IS INHUMANE YOU CANNOT DO THIS THIS IS TOO MUCH POWER. Please. Theres like 36980 screens open flashing and causing epilepsy what the fuck would he be even spying?

3. Why do the chinese police just stand around in awe for 30 seconds when Bats shoots out the balloon thing?

4. Why do the cops not fight back in any way when they are escorting Dent? And who wrote the horrible one liners from the generic cop #345? That was like the worst shit ever.

5. Dent takes off his safety belt and shoots the driver. Smooth move there. It felt like the entire scene was built around HEH... YOUR DRIVER AINT SO LUCKY eventhough it made no sense to shoot the driver without having any plan how to bail out. Or did he jump out because if he did I didn't see that.

6. Batman can turn on the sonar eyes at will but cant turn them off? Even Fox cant turn them off remotely?

7. The voice. I get it that its there because he wants to mask his identity and to be more intimidating but its so overdone and he sounds like he has just ran a marathon and smoked 30 cigarettes every day for the past 30 years.

8. The movie is too long and it feels like they threw in every idea they could think and even with, what, over 2 hours or whatever, they still didn't have enough time to make it all fit.

1. Scarecrow was there just because. Quick fight scene type thing, plus just to bring him back. Also he was sweaty because he'd just got his ass beat. And he wasn't dealing drugs?

2. Idk?

3. Correct me if I'm wrong but Batman still had their boss/Lau captive.

4. Wait wait wait...fight back...in a car...to attack a big giant truck with some psycho with a rocket launcher? Good job! Also I don't remember the one-liners but w/e a lot of movies have one-liners.

5. Yeah he puts it on.

6. Idk?

7. Yeah but w/e it's a voice.

8. I don't understand this point?

Batman has always, ultimately, been the unliked hero. In fact, the only people (besides his close people like Rachel and Alfred) who like him areeeee.....Harvey Dent and Commissioner Gordan! This is pretty much true for every Batman series ever. I think its true for even the Adam West version. Batman has always been the unliked hero, that IS his role and story. The Joker has always been the unknown villain. He has a backstory, but the makers are never going to let you know it, because the instant they do, his character falls apart. There have been a few series' that give you a glimpse of possibilities of how the Joker has been created (falls into thing of acid, his wife gets killed and he loses his job as a comedian goes insane) etc, but these glimpses are never made official, and when they are shown in their respective arcs, they are never touched on again. The Joker as a character fails the instant you give the audience even a slight chance of sympathy for him.

To me it sounds like you don't even know what Batman or his respective character's are about deep down in the first place. Let's just say there's a very good reason why Two Face is dead but treated as a hero, the Joker is alive, and the Batman is running away from everyone at the end.

Patient #14, I don't want to be rude but basically you know Jack Nicholson shit about Batman.

 HL is right.

While it's true I've never read the comics, I think this movie should have been done differently. That's all.

It *is* done differently, it is darker than the comic books are. There is a lot different from the comic books but you can't change what the characters are about man.

EDIT:
Also I know you mean the movie done differently now, but again, if they changed it to suit what you want, it wouldn't "be" Batman.

1. Scarecrow was there just because. Quick fight scene type thing, plus just to bring him back. Also he was sweaty because he'd just got his ass beat. And he wasn't dealing drugs?

I'm fairly sure he was. Some guy was going mental on the ground and the guy buying was all "look what your stuff did to my guy!" and Scarecrow was like "If you don't like it you can go somewhere else". Pretty badly paraphrased but I think the idea was that he was trying to sell his hallucinogen gas as a recreational thing and it wasn't working out well.

1. Scarecrow was there just because. Quick fight scene type thing, plus just to bring him back. Also he was sweaty because he'd just got his ass beat. And he wasn't dealing drugs?

Scarecrow was there because he worked well to introduce Batman in TDK and to tie up loose ends left in Batman Begins.

Scarecrow was there because he worked well to introduce Batman in TDK and to tie up loose ends left in Batman Begins.

Yup, they mention it right at the end of Batman Begins. Someone asked before, I forget who it was, "why can't batman turn off his sonar eyes"
He probably had the ability to do it by pressing a hidden button on his helmet, but right before he could, Joker wailed on him with that pipe.
As for Joker, there was major character development, as mentioned. He starts out as this nobody crook, and by the end, we see him as this criminal mastermind. It wasn't that he built up to that... he always was, it just took a movie long experience to really understand it. To humanize a psychopath or monster would be to ruin the monster. The less we know, the scarier it is. Think of the movie Jaws. Or the Jason movies.

i thought he was using the sonar as a form of night vision because it was dark as hell in the building

I think it was Chef who said that it was to add more chaos to the scene. It also acted as a convienent explanation for what the hell was going on throughout the whole building during the scene. It was one heck of a gimmick whatever way you look at it. Personally, I'm glad the device was destroyed. The best part of Batman in Batman Begins, was that you didn't get inside his head like that. He was always in the shadows being badass. Not up close and personal with the camera. Whatever though, this isn't Batman Begins.

Oh yeah, that reminds me, someone was saying they didn't connect with Batman/Wayne. Someone explained you weren't supposed to. This is true, both Wayne and Batman are masks that Bruce has to wear. One to hide his true nature from public eye, and one to hide his true self from his enemies. So, we didn't see too much of Bruce Wayne in this movie. He was either asshole millionaire or asshole batsuit. In Batman Begins we see him descend into both masks, so we know who he really is.

it is darker than the comic books are.

How is this darker? What comics are you reading man?

man laz what has happened to you...

what happened to the laz i knew that would like this movie and play soldat with me

huh? what happened