It at least followed the basic plot structure of like... every movie ever

this is not a redeeming factor, man

i just watched this. it was okay - it was about as good as i expected. best superhero movie there has been, but every other superhero movie is stupid and worthless. batman begins is the only other experience i've had with batman, and i didn't like that at all, because it felt just like those other movies with superficial darkness by virtue of the fact most of it took place at night, but this one actually had a little more to it. it wasn't amazing though, and it's pretty lame that a movie which does more than throw one liners and big booms at you has to get such an exaggerated reaction. but the joker was really entertaining to watch there ain't no denying this.

he felt a little tame though which is a shame. it had to be pg-13 cos it's a superhero blockbuster, but that doesn't make it a good idea to keep him on a leash. i kept expecting him to really go wild and justify his insanity, or show the depravity of what he likes to do on screen but it didn't happen so i didn't feel it as much as i could have if they had just been willing to take him a little futher. what i mean to say is, i liked the angle they took with the joker but it could have gone deeper had marketing and audience width not been as important. maybe the dvd version will contain some of what i am talking about in the extended cut. i'll watch it again if it does.

the joker was really the only interesting thing in the movie. i mean, what he done to dent was cool but i didn't really buy the shift from white knight to "i'm gonna kill ya son! wheee!!!". maybe if there had been more foreshadowing of a split personality beforehand it would have worked, or maybe the whole character was just off i dunno - it doesn't really matter. point is, it worked conceptually. this movie was about the joker corrupting things and causing chaos and it served that so even if i didn't like that shift so much, it was worth it. eckhart's acting was fine.

aside from that there was a lot of dumb shit. too much time in vehicles speeding around, too many stupid gadgets and magic technology. that ending monologue about "he's the dark knight" was really, really bad.. i almost don't even want to put the movie down cos everyone loves it so much and i don't want to be a prick about it but really! the movie was one great character mired amidst concessions to a mass audience and superhero conventions.

oh and i totally wish the boats had blown and the movie had ended with the joker swinging around upside laughing his head off. the way the joker went down didn't feel earned, it was too easy.

this is not a redeeming factor, man

I know, I just mentioned that because I really hated the new one's structure.

Ha ha, I actually kept reading that comment over and over again thinking Puppet Master meant something else than what he said. D:

Yeah, that didn't quite come out right.

EDIT: Ok, I'll word it differently. Batman Returns had a basic, 3 act story structure, while The Dark Knight seemed to just be throwing in new plot elements at random.

Best batman film I've seen, not that that's saying much. I'm down with jamicus that the joker should have been OFF THE LEASH a bit more but considering the obvious constraints I think heath ledger did a great job of making him creepy as fuck, I bet he scared a lot of kids.

he felt a little tame though which is a shame. it had to be pg-13 cos it's a superhero blockbuster, but that doesn't make it a good idea to keep him on a leash.

the joker was really the only interesting thing in the movie.

I felt the same way, I remembered the comics he was a literal maniac with no boundaries, but here he did seem to have boundaries and ideas of what would happen when he'd do anything. The original joker that I wanted and could remember... he didn't care what the outcome would be it would just be done in anarchy. I didn't realise there was a rating (I didn't really care, since batman is my favorite superhero and I would watch it reguardless if it was rated G to R) But I guess it does explain why it was so toned down... wasn't the last one a higher rating?

Looking back at the film a few days after seeing it and reflecting a little bit, I have to agree with the people saying how Harvey Dent's transformation into two-face was kind of unrealistic. It just didn't feel right to me. I think the major problem with it that I have was that I never really got the feeling that he loved Rachel. Sure, they were in many scenes together, but I never felt the chemistry. So, when she dies and he goes all psycho I just didn't feel it.

Man I really forgot this was rated pg-13 when I was watching it. I thought it was pretty damn violent as far as /suggestion/ of violence. I think it's better when this stuff is understated anyway. I mean I really don't understand what you guys think Joker should've done that he didn't, like the pencil trick wasn't enough, or the bunch of people he blew up, or opening up that guy was pretty unpleasant

Haha I try not to make anime references but Noir was done almost completely without showing blood, but the assassinations still seemed pretty violent because of sound effects/the way they animated it - like as a direct comparison I remember there was a part where a cop comes up to the Joker's truck and he just pops out and shoots him so fast it kind of made me queasy. I guess you guys are saying they should've showed more blood and stuff but I think that would just made it like one of the Saw movies or something - especially how he rigs up traps that would probably be impossible to do in real life and forces people to make really difficult moral decisions

yeah and I wasn't feeling Two-Face either - although when he was good guy he did a good job, the whole I am Batman thing was kinda cheesy but he seemed like he could be - I agree with whoever said it, he should've had a multiple personality to begin with, he wasn't even really Two-face then was he he was "Guy with one face who turns into a guy with a different personality and fucked-up face" - I dunno the comics but I thought Two-face would shift between good/bad and maybe argue with himself

I found those things to resonate with the character, it wasn't so much how much he did, it's the fact that it seemed more planned and precise which is not the Joker i know.... He's supposed to be more well... crazy and unguided.

Well guys remember when he flips a coin to decide whether or not to kill one of the mobsters, before he gets burnt? And he's going pretty much psycho, and Batman has to come and tell him the mobster doesn't know anything. I think that was kind of foreshadowing his darker side, like when Batman said he couldn't do stuff like that because he was Gotham's White Knight.

About Harvey's Two Sides:

While I agree that he went insane a bit too fast (killing kids), I thought they built his character pretty well. The first scene when he hits the mob guy tells us that he's no coward. When he kidnaps one of The Jokers guys he shows us yet another darker side. Small subtle hints throughout the film that he could go further than he showed Rachel for instance. I dunno, getting your girl blown into smithereens along with half of your face might do the trick to really fall over to the DARK SIDE. His character worked for me imo..

Yep I know, but he was still going a little nutso.

I agree with Liman!

dude, the coin was a double-sided head, he wouldn't have killed him..

Rachel had that coin didn't she?

oh and i totally wish the boats had blown and the movie had ended with the joker swinging around upside laughing his head off. the way the joker went down didn't feel earned, it was too easy.

i just realized i really would have liked something like this.

joker did go down too easily and pretty much dropped out of the picture at the end...

The Joker went down easy because he had already won by creating the most anarchy already.

Don't forget the actor died. Maybe they didn't get to film his last big scene, and his last big scene ended up being just one of his last filmed scenes.

Don't forget the actor died. Maybe they didn't get to film his last big scene, and his last big scene ended up being just one of his last filmed scenes.

They already filmed all his scenes long before that.

They already filmed all his scenes long before that.

Lies! 

Lies! 

Yeah man, he was working on the Terry Gilliam movie when he died. He wouldn't fuck up his schedule with two movies like that.