Topic: Your religous history? (Read 3853 times)

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with that said i find it kind of odd that you listed off gods that support murder, genocide, spousal abuse, child abuse, slavery, and racism (i dunno if it was a joke or not but whatever).

Oh don't get me wrong, I'd never follow their religions, but they were far more interesting to read about than the Christian God. 
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Atheist Dad, Spiritual Non-Religious Mom, ergo Atheist Spiritual Son.

although the spiritual bizniz is pretty nonexistant right now, I'll get into that when I find love, as for then asshoelr
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I'm a struggling Christian. Though I like hearing about all that great science stuff it makes me feel more and more like this world was planned and had a intelligent hand in its creation. Prayer has helped me through a lot of things. Take it as you will.
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My mother tried to get me into the whole religon thing, but it was never really my... interest, after a few years of being in a Catholic School, (i failed Religon terribly!) I found it amusing and hilarious, how a lot of people seem to praise a book, and start reading like "hey guys, you remember this part in this section of the book?" Its no different then reading a comic book and being in a convention, and remember a scene from a Spider Man comic in a certain part.

I have nothing against catholics or any other religon for that matter, but all I ask is don't knock on my door to join a god, I'm not interested in that crap. But one thing I should mention, I find it absurd as a god who allows his religious followers to kill under his name, if you're gonna kill someone for god please don't say, "God made me do it." That's just another excuse for saying "I'm drunk off my crocker."

I could go on about how absurd religon or whatever, but now i'm at the point where I will just start confusing myself, and might get flamed from the stuff i said, so i'll just stop right here.
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I remember once we were walking around downtown in a nearby city and some zealot christian college students stopped us and had a video camera and wanted to talk with us about god. I was looking at this one guy and he seriously had some strange glaze over his eyes or something like he was on speed but it was like christ speed and he looked creepy as hell like he wanted to rape me or something (thats the only way I can describe it).

Anyways they kept asking me if I believed in god and I said, "No I don't" and they were like HOW DO YOU KNOW THERE ISNT A GOD?!??

And my rebuttal was HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT THERE IS?? And the guy's eyes got even wider and he was like I..I...I CAN FEEL IT! And one of my friends asked him if he was sure it wasn't just gas.

I can't remember exactly how the rest of the night went but I know we kept going around in circles and they were video taping us the whole time and I asked for a copy of the video and never got it...

But there was some drunk guy down the street that fell over and his beer busted all over the street and we started laughing at him and he was like, "WHAT THE FUCK YOU STARIN AT??"  And one of the students said something like "CHRIST BE WITH YOU!" and the drunk was like "FUCK YOU BUDDY!" in some slurred speech and stumbled off into the night.

It was seriously pretty damn funny and we were there for like 3 hours. I asked the guy if he was actually gonna use the footage and he said YEAH MAN BUT WE'RE GONNA EDIT IT! and I wouldn't be surprised if I saw it one day on some local cable access channel with half the shit edited out and my words spliced together to agree with every question they asked.
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Well, my grandmother is an extremely religious person. Strangely enough though, my Father never really picked up on it. My mother's side of the family was not hugely religious either. They both say they believe in God though I don't ever recall a time where they have taken me to church. The only time my dad took me to church was because it was a social event he more or less was obligated to go to and no one was around to take care of me.

I live in a country where pretty much everyone is an extreme fanatic. The schools make you pray every morning, afternoon and have assemblies on Mondays where you have something like a mini-church-service. They don't ever seem to take into consideration other people's religious beliefs and they also seem to instantly assume you are a christian as well. They pretty much are strictly religious.

I tried so damn hard to be like them, but quite frankly I just can't.  I cannot worship God in the same way they do. I'm not sure of whether or not he exists, but I feel more inclined to believe he doesn't. At least, the God that Christianity makes out- The all loving, all powerful God who created the universe- yeah, I don't believe that shit. I mean, we all live in the 21st century, and I'm sure we aren't all oblivious to the suffering, corruption, murder, illness, poverty, starvation and so on. I mean, if this all powerful God truly loved us wouldn't he try to end this? Why would he just let us suffer?
There's also the fact that he doesn't present himself in any way at all. He doesn't interact with us, he doesn't carry out any miracles as shown in the bible, and he certainly doesn't fix the huge issues no matter how much we seem to pray. In the end, it feels like I'm just believing in something blindly and I'm not even sure if it is worth my time.
The bible is also a very irritating book because it puts alot of rules and regulations in your life that quite frankly make it unenjoyable.

I find some of the stories ridiculous and I also don't like some of the morals behind it. The "end days" are almost appalling to me because after all this suffering that God LET us suffer, he lets us suffer some MORE. Then he brings the few who still stuck with him, and brings them into a new world with no suffering and sin. The problem is that no sins means no little sins, which means that life instantly becomes extremely boring since alot of the things considered to be sins in the bible are actually just little recreational things that don't affect anyone. You also live a life completely devoted to God as if nothing else matters at all....almost like a slave. And the fact that you're given an eternal life to do this...? To be honest, I'd rather just die the "blackout forever" way because I don't want to put up with that trash.
If God truly existed and had a valid reason, then maybe I wouldn't mind the new world, but worshipping him 24/7/ sounds like a slavery and not much of a happy existence to me.

There's also hell. I mean, you pretty much created angels, and somehow one decided to turn against you. That's awesome. Flawless creation abilities there. Next you throw him into a fucking pit, but wait, you still allow him to have access to your newest creations but you don't want him corrupting them. What the HELL kind of plan is this? Like, are you fucking serious? If you were all powerful, why didn't you just smite him or make him good again, instead of letting him be a problem to you for thousands of years?
So now, you put blame on obviously imperfect beings. You put two inexperienced nudists on a planet and tell them not to eat a fruit and then someone else (who they don't even know is evil SINCE THEY HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OF EVIL SINCE THEY DIDN'T EAT THE FRUIT!!!) tells them "Hey eat it, God is lying". They eat it, they curse the rest of the species and it is THEN that they learn what evil and sin is. What the fuck? Are you serious? How could an all powerful, all knowledgeable being not foresee this huge logical flaw?

The fact that you don't believe in God also sends you to hell. So sadly, a whole bunch of innocent people in other parts of the world who just happened to be RAISED in a different religion get fucked. What happens to babies? They have no knowledge of God. We're all fucking BORN atheists! Would they go to hell because they just didn't know you? Why did you bother having a fucking baby be born just to kill it? What a great plan and FUTURE as stated in Jeremiah 29:11!
Quote
"For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.
His plan and future for them was to never live a life!

So yeah, enough ranting. I don't have a huge history or any life changing events that make me believe what I do. I just grew older and observed more things and payed more attention to the things people were trying to feed me. I used logic and reasoning to believe what I believe in. I guess I'm lucky that my parents were not huge zealots who'd make me go to church all the time because I'd probably be completely brainwashed. I believe that either God doesn't exist or he is an extremely cruel bastard who hates us.

It gets fustration because I live in a society where everyone is a christian and pretty much ostracizes you if you're not. So I have to PAINFULLY pretend. Although, I don't really have anything against christians, I just don't believe what they do. And the people I interact with actually would disrespect my views, yet I have to be mature and respect their's. Either way, I do, I just believe differently.
Last Edit: June 26, 2008, 11:50:28 pm by Seawed
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You know, I think a lot of people believe in a god for a "god of the gaps". They don't think that natural phoenomena can explain it, so they use "god". They say the universe can't exist forever, but god "is". They believe god doesn't require an explanation, because he "is god". This doesn't follow right with me. Why must your god always be, but nothing else can? What is it's reason for existance, then? How did it learn to do what it does, and why does it do what it does, besides the fact that it is god and just can?
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I think that this sort of "diffuse Christian morality" that exists in Western Civilization is probably kept in mind nowadays by most people who have some awareness of thier own morals, weather they believe in anything or not. Maybe even the atheists ammongst us are inadvertenly Christians in thier ethical thinking because we live in a world spawned from Christianity?
The so-called Golden Rule is the cornerstone of any society (along with several other factors). It has been the prevailing principle behind almost every religion and can be found in virtually every culture on the planet. It has nothing specifically to do with christianity, which is just one of many cultures that has adopted it. See Luke 10:25-37.
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Not the jews, just wait inri's got my back on this.
DEUCE: MEETING THE URINE UP CLOSE AND PERSONAL AND REALIZING IT'S JUST LIKE ME AND MY PREJUDICES  THIS WHOLE TIME WERE COMPLETELY FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF PTTTTHTHTHH GOD IT'S EVERYWHERE<br />DEUCE: FUCK THIS TASTES LIKE PISS<br />PANTS: WHERE IT SHOULD TASTE LIKE COTTON CANDY OR PICKLES<br />DEUCE: OR AT LEAST LIKE URINE NOT PISS
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I think that this sort of "diffuse Christian morality" that exists in Western Civilization is probably kept in mind nowadays by most people who have some awareness of thier own morals, weather they believe in anything or not. Maybe even the atheists ammongst us are inadvertenly Christians in thier ethical thinking because we live in a world spawned from Christianity?
Actually, its the other way around...  Christianity (and many many other religions) co-opted the golden rule and made it part of their teachings.  Morality a human trait, not some magic god-like spell.

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  The influence for the "golden rule" ethic for the past thousand some years in the Western world has been delivered through Christian influence. We don't think about it now, but even as much as 100 years ago, the world was very very much (incredibly moreso than it is today) embrued heavily with religious influence at every echelon. The influence of pastors and preists and the church in shaping the moral culture of the day (for the past thousand plus years) through thier interpretations and preachings of the teachings of Jesus shouldn't be underestimated. The morals and ethics that we hold in the West because of this influence were and are different from those of other cultures (which is a subject of ongoing dialogue between the West and non-west).

Its not as though Christianty was something separate from the rest of society, and as the homogenous mixture of people that it was, it was a centre of social and especially moral education for hundreds of years. So even though the ethic may be universalist, which is why each culture has its own variant of it, it is hard to deny that its primary delivery system in education to Western Civilization was the church, and also to deny that the influence of the Christian church has shaped the popular morals of the western world.

anyways this thread is not here for this debate.
Last Edit: June 28, 2008, 03:49:58 am by Blitzen
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I have a somewhat interesting story.


Both sides of my family are traditionally liberal, pro-choice, Democrat Catholics. My mom pulled me out of Sunday school when I really young, apparently because she heard the class singing about "God's little soldiers" and various acts of ensuing violence.

I did not really think about religion at all until I was about 10 or 11. We did not attend church or anything, and with the internet, I found that atheism was compatible with the ideological package of the liberalism my family instilled in me. Unfortunately, I did not pick up on the rigors of its methodology.

However, by about half-way through middle school, I was looking into more esoteric metaphysics, and ended up converting to some form of neopaganism. My attachment to "woo", and thus my views on the mind ended up making my life more hellish than it should have been.

When I turned 14, the onset of my depression crippled me, making it impossible for me to work with my school's standards. The lack of sympathy, understanding and competence shocked my world-view. I now had personal experience dealing with a monopolistic system, and it made it impossible for me to reconcile it with my quasi-socialist views.

However, the lack of activity during the next few years gave me a lot of time to read and think. One book that I read, Gödel, Escher, Bach, was particularly influential on my thoughts on cognitive science. After finally going ahead and taking meds, I felt a lot better, if still not at baseline.

Taking meds gave me quite a bit to think about. If altering the brain's functions altered consciousness as well, where was there room for a "soul"? Of course, there isn't any, and the slightest possibility of me believing in any notable world religion collapsed then and there.

My philosophical knowledge has provided me with tools to think about metaphysics to this day, and I even have a few conjectural beliefs based on it.

Jeff, earlier in this topic, somewhat rephrased a version of the cosmological argument for a deity. The flaw in this category of arguments, is that there has to be some sort of ultimate, unexplainable anthropic entity "behind the scenes", pulling the levers that make the universe function. This god of the gaps shows up in many fields I have studied, from the arguments for Creationism, to the arguments for conspiracy theories.

The notions of an "anthropic universe" take us back all the way to primitive humanity, animism, and its possible origins. We are innately biased to think of things in terms of ourselves, and things like ourselves dominate our surroundings. This is an evolutionarily optimal belief. After all, in order to use our theory of mind, our most powerful feature, we need something to map it onto. Unfortunately, this metaphorical understanding gave way to actual notions of intent behind non-intentional events.

My own (rather weak) speculations on metaphysical origins have a more abstract bent. Currently, I have been leaning towards a form of the mathematical universe hypothesis. This seems particularly reasonable to me given my intuition that any given logical statement necessitates some form of quantification, and the relations between quantifiable things give rise to mathematics as being inherently ontological.

However, there are still gaps in this sort of understanding. Gödel's incompleteness theorem is still a completely unresolved issue, and I cannot even begin to describe the implications on simulation theories. Fortunately, I happen to be living in a philosophically exciting time, and theories may pop up from unexpected corners.

Sorry if I rambled.
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3. Other religions had much cooler gods.  Zeus, Ares, Hades, Odin, Thor, Loki, Ra, Anubis, Nu Wa, Shiva, Ganesh, Pele, Kane Milohai, etc. (congrats if you can figure out what cultures those all came from without looking them up).
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I used to be an Orthodox Christian until a year ago when I was unconverted to atheism. I used to be a fan of deism and "GOD IS THE EMPTY SPACE BETWEEN MOLECULES" for a while too.
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the only understanding of god i can manage when i'm trying to relate to people who talk about god is that god is other people, it is the dominant morality of the people they know and their beliefs etc. so with that idea in mind i try not to dismiss people out of hand when they say the word god or start talking about their religious beliefs, i just think of that. like god is the potential for good in humanity.

that's the decent part of religion though, the part i think can help people get through their lives. i mean i think it's pretty naive and stupid, don't get me wrong here - i'm an atheist and i think people who really believe in a supreme being or creator who governs our lives are just scared or don't know any better. maybe, even as i try to be respectful of people's beliefs, i am still being a superior and condescending prick about the whole issue.

but i just don't take god very seriously. i take religion more seriously because it means a lot to most of the world, and it has the potential to go really sour and then people start oppressing and killing each other. i think it's important to be knowledgable about all the major religions. i haven't read the koran or the bible or anything, but i intend to. right now i am trying to get acquainted with islamism and the more i learn about it the more this stuff really scares me.

so whatever - really i don't care what your religious beliefs are unless you start being a dick about it.
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Almost, though you got the wrong Pele (though I'm sure there's  probably some Brazilians that worship him as a god).
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You know, I was just about to not post, but I decided I will. its the internet. if I get flamed for what I'm about to post, then so be it.

I'm Mormon. I grew up mormon and I still am. BUT, what separates me from a lot of people is that my parents are very openminded. they're both centrists, so am I, so a lot of the stuff I have is the way I was raised. I don't necessarily blame religion, and thank it because a lot of the times I'm a lot better off. Yeah, I've been asked about a million different questions... and the truth is I only wish church where that interesting. a lot of it is extremely dry compared to other churches. there's no rock band. we have an organist and a piano. there's no speaking of tongues. there's no casting off of evil spirits by hitting people on the head. we bless people for that stuff but its a lot less interesting than it sounds. Yeah, I know. I've dealt with as much people telling me I'm going to hell or I'm stupid... but not from my own church. most of the people telling me I'm going to hell are people who consider themselves good christians.

In my general religious point of views: I don't really think a lot of people are going to hell. Actually I think most people have a lot of chances. What I've learned at church is that even when you die, and even if you've done things that may be considered "wrong" you still have more chances. yes, there's a lot of confusion about what's in the bible. things contradict. we all know that. but its how you interpret what everything really means. if you take it literally, then things are going to be a lot worse off.

Because my parents were generally openminded people, I too am an openminded person. I used to get harrased a lot by other kids until I told them that I respected them in there choices. I don't write people off immediately as bad people if they're not religious or don't have the same religion as me. It just doesn't feel right to me. There's good in everyone. Many of my friends have a vague belief in a God or some of them even don't. I actually didn't for the longest while because well, frankly, junior high sucked. I did a lot of stuff that really wasn't the greatest for me in the long run.

Yeah. the world is a terrible place. I don't really blame god for that. I know, that's going to make people hate this point of view even more. I think its understandable that people might think that, but I really don't. People are here. Some are good, some not too great. Most of it all comes from some sort of misunderstanding. how to explain the weather? well, there's obviously science to explain that. Yeah, I believe that god controls the skies and whatever, but I don't think he's literally moving it with his hand.

I believe in modern medicine (as most of my church does/should), and I'm sad when people die (people have told me that they think religion is stupid because they're not out their finding cures or mourning the death of people. I felt that was to claim I wasn't human.) I want these diseases cured as much as the next person. I cry when a family member dies. Just because I believe that they're going to a better place doesn't mean I'm not going to miss them.
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Almost, though you got the wrong Pele (though I'm sure there's  probably some Brazilians that worship him as a god).
I got the wrong Pele on purpose because I was unaware of who the other one was, really.