Yes.Ah, so that's why there's an utterly negligible amount of handgun deaths in the Netherlands?

You have to consider other things like crime-rate and such too, not just deaths by weapon.

Weapons should be controlled federally IMO. I don't see a reason to own them unless you can prove to the government you can use them responsibly.

Yes I agree.

Ah, so that's why there's an utterly negligible amount of handgun deaths in the Netherlands?

Wow. Wow! For how many years were guns banned in the UK? Even the police didn't carry guns. Now they do. Why? Because while it might slow the trend, banning a weapon doesn't keep it out of the hands who are breaking the law anyways (the criminals).

If you are going to commit a deadly crime, would you really care if it were against the law for you to purchase a gun on the street? No, of course not!

I have always thought you were an international man of mystery Dada but if you are really directly correlating ban all weapons in the world to crime rate will drop to Dutch levels then I really don't know.

There are hundreds of millions of guns in the US; making them illegal isn't going to do anything. Look at how well prohibition worked, or how well the war on drugs is going. Banning something doesn't make the problem go away, it just makes the problem harder to control because there are no regulations or degrees of control, it just brings to a black and white level which measures minor offenders with the same stick they use for major offenders.

Most firearm murders (not deaths, murders*) in the US are perpetrated using illegal purchased weapons already. It is illegal to carry a concealable firearm, but lots of criminals still do it. Banning a weapon (or a substance) just makes it harder to monitor and gives rise to black market trading, which is the exact opposite of what we want.

Right now, the police can fight even violent offenders with tasers without killing them, and a few bad apples (like the officer in the story) shouldn't ruin it for every law enforcement agency in the world.



*I agree banning weapons would lower the accidental death rate, but so would proper training. Carelessness behind the wheel of a car kills plenty of people each year. We can't ban everything that is dangerous because of a few stupid people, is pretty much what I am saying!

He is making incoherent statements; he's also making statements such as, 'Shoot cops, kill cops,' things like that. So there was cause for concern to the officers."

ahaha. he had a broken back and foot from falling off a 30ft bridge and they tasered him 19 times because he said "kill cops" and was therefore dangerous.

fucking people.

Wow. Wow! For how many years were guns banned in the UK? Even the police didn't carry guns. Now they do. Why? Because while it might slow the trend, banning a weapon doesn't keep it out of the hands who are breaking the law anyways (the criminals).

hey kaempfer guess what many many many gun-related deaths aren't actually murders it turns out!!!  as in not everyone who is going to hurt someone with a weapon is a criminal, so the argument "yeah well criminals will get them anyway" is actually kinda dumb

also criminals get guns so easily because there's a fucking ton of them and they get stolen and then they're out on the streets.  if they didn't MAKE MILLIONS OF GUNS then there wouldn't be nearly as steady a stream of them flowing into the hands of black market people.  if guns were outlawed//out of production//not really owned by very many people because they were illegal, where would the AVERAGE STREET THUG get one?  the guy he bought it from probably just bought it from someone else who stole it from someone who actually bought it legitimately, which means that if that first guy can't do that, there's no guns to steal/sell to criminals!  like you could get them from like serious ARMS DEALERS i guess but a) those are kind of difficult for the average criminal to access, and b) the rarity/difficulty in obtaining one would make the price of just regular handguns skyrocket, and copious amounts of money is also something the average criminal doesn't typically have access to!

Easy if legal manufacturers stop (hah!!!), then the Black Market will quickly fill the gap. You under estimate a well organized group of criminals's productivity.

to mass produce millions of professional grade guns?  no i don't think i am!  the materials alone would be a fortune AAAAND unlike a meth lab or some shit which you can have it in a lot of places, you sort of need a pretty specific and large factory to produce guns.  you could just do it overseas or something and that would work fine but again it's a lot more expensive an investment than producing drugs, and you still have to worry about how you're going to get them across the border.  not to say that getting them across the border would be impossible, but it WOULD be pretty difficult and severely limit who could get a gun, and who could afford one, i am thinking.  it's not like foreign manufacturers would stop making them and domestic ones would probably RELOCATE OVERSEAS or something but i still think having to smuggle them in illegally would probably make them a lot less plentiful.

hey kaempfer guess what many many many gun-related deaths aren't actually murders it turns out!!!  as in not everyone who is going to hurt someone with a weapon is a criminal, so the argument "yeah well criminals will get them anyway" is actually kinda dumb

Most firearm murders (not deaths, murders*)...

*I agree banning weapons would lower the accidental death rate, but so would proper training. Carelessness behind the wheel of a car kills plenty of people each year. We can't ban everything that is dangerous because of a few stupid people, is pretty much what I am saying!

Hey what exactly was the point of saying that my argument is dumb when I was clearly talking about the murders and not the accidental deaths which I pointed out in the same post!

And OK, they ban the production of weapons in the WORLD. There are still hundreds of millions of them floating around! It would take decades and decades and billions and billions of dollars in law enforcement to clean up the guns that already exist, assuming it is even possible! Which it probably isn't! And while I agree it's a noble cause, it's also a pretty ridiculous goal consider how many people LOVE DEM GUNS.

If tomorrow all guns on the planet disappeared the world would be a better place, but until you convince the tens of millions of Americans (and other less well known gun-lovers) who have a hard on for their right to bear arms to stop buying them and convince nations to stop fighting each other (thus putting the multi-trillion dollar small arms trade out of business) then I really don't think it's going to happen.

There is even a topic right next to this one about militias and shit in the USA, what do you think they'd do if the federal government suddenly banned weapons? There'd be a fucking armed revolt.

You can easily injurekill yourself with a mere .5 amperes, especially if the current flows straight through the chest cavity (the heart).

where Nugent fired a seventh shot, directly against Pikes' chest.

Deathblow. Kid who was tasered 19 times, I bet not through the chest.

Also, what the fuck?

Website for more information.
http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_1/chpt_3/4.html

When you wear a gold ring, the resistance of your hand in ohms drops to about 1000. 20 volts could induce a current of .20 amperes.

Notice that in this condition, 20 volts is enough to produce a current of 20 milliamps through a person: enough to induce tetanus. Remember, it has been suggested a current of only 17 milliamps may induce ventricular (heart) fibrillation

This is pretty deadly. Taser guns can pulse THOUSANDS of volts into your body, and though the current may not be sustained over long periods of time (because taser guns generally pulse the electricity), this is still very, very deadly.

Also, when you factor in the fact that black people generally wear all dat bling bling... well, it's easy to see that the taser gun is whitey's new nightstick. Whitey's denigratin' the black man agin!

I was kidding.

Please don't eat me, black people of GW.

Hey what exactly was the point of saying that my argument is dumb when I was clearly talking about the murders and not the accidental deaths which I pointed out in the same post!

And OK, they ban the production of weapons in the WORLD. There are still hundreds of millions of them floating around! It would take decades and decades and billions and billions of dollars in law enforcement to clean up the guns that already exist, assuming it is even possible! Which it probably isn't! And while I agree it's a noble cause, it's also a pretty ridiculous goal consider how many people LOVE DEM GUNS.

If tomorrow all guns on the planet disappeared the world would be a better place, but until you convince the tens of millions of Americans (and other less well known gun-lovers) who have a hard on for their right to bear arms to stop buying them and convince nations to stop fighting each other (thus putting the multi-trillion dollar small arms trade out of business) then I really don't think it's going to happen.

There is even a topic right next to this one about militias and shit in the USA, what do you think they'd do if the federal government suddenly banned weapons? There'd be a fucking armed revolt.

sorry, your posted started out kind of ridiculous and you are you, so i assumed it would stay ridiculous!

sorry, your posted started out kind of ridiculous and you are you, so i assumed it would stay ridiculous!

Please don't assume this I am trying really hard to not be ridiculous :*(

It's the culture that needs to change, Kaempfer.  It's true that just banning guns isn't going to make the required difference, but there has to be some roadmap that ends with a full and unconditional ban of all firearms.  The arguments that people say in favor of firearm possession are usually true only in today's context; such as that it will give criminals an advantage.  In reality, many criminals don't own firearms either in those countries where there is no gun culture.
Of course it will always be possible to buy a gun.  The thing is that it's quite a bit more expensive in countries where they're banned, which makes it impractical for a large group of criminals to get one.  You can't just set up a factory in someone's basement and importing them from, say, Turkey, is difficult and costly.

I agree that the culture needs to change, but in certain places (like the US) there have to be a great number of intermediate steps before gun bans can be put in place. People in the US grumble about the fact that there is an automatic weapons ban; what the hell could the average civilian need an automatic weapon for?

What I am saying is that many places that put flat-out bans on things view the situation in entirely a black and white manner, and that is far worse than proper regulation. Look at the US' stance on marijuana (which is illegal there)- possession can land you the same sentence as possession of much harder, much worse drugs (like heroine). This is because there is no framework for specific punishment, which leads to a culture of crime; petty criminals become major criminals in the eyes of the law and, in turn, start to become major criminals in truth.

I don't smoke druges but I am super-pro-legalizations of marijuana in Canada granted it had similar restrictions as alcohol. Not only would it pretty much eliminate 60% of the "drug dealers" in the major cities, but it'd also keep a huge number of people out of jail. I don't want to go into this too much because this isn't what the topic is about but...

The correlation I am making here is that if you ban something, then it becomes a criminal activity. In a place where guns are very much a part of culture, you have to set up reasonable government controls that will make people more likely to come forward about gun crime, because they will be less worried about being thrown in jail for owning a gun. If the word "gun" becomes associated with "crime" in a place like the US, then just knowing someone who owns a gun is going to alienate you from the police, which is very bad.

And yeah, obviously guns are more dangerous than cars, but there need to be easy to access programs for proper care of the firearms that are legally owned already. It would be nice to say all guns are    banishe!! but there need to be a huge number of radically progressive steps before you can start to get guns off the streets, never mind out of the hands of global arms dealers.


Also interesting: there are a tonne of guns in Canada but out gun murder rate is like 1/1000th that of the USA per capita!

Yeah  Canada's problem isn't gun violence, it's human trafficking and drug trafficking. It is legal to carry side-arms that is Government issued and you have a permit in Canada but then it varries from province to province. It also depends if you live in a rural area or not too.

I agree with Keampfer with pretty much all of what he said. Why would a civilian need an automatic? You don't need full automatics unless your planning something.