I don't know about you but if I was sitting right there and had a problem getting that far back into the bus in the firstplace and watched that guy go for the kid with a knife, KNOWING I might not get through all those people fast enough. I might have tried to knock him out or get the knife at least.

The circumstances must not have been described very well, because I cannot see how a bus full of 37 people couldn't atleast TRY to stop this guy from going any further. I'm not saying HURR BE A HERO, but I mean alot of people jump on a guy and beat the shit out of him, while someone called the ambulance and BAM this could have been avoided.
Instead these people saw an innocent guy being murdered and ran away? 

Fear can override pretty much any planned action.  I carry a pocket knife around with me and I know a few take down maneuvers from my security days but I'm usually asleep on a bus and if I woke up to the screams of some dude getting stabbed I'd probably just stand there and watch until it connected in my brain that "hey dude this guy is getting killed shouldn't you do something?"

I don't know the medical term for it but I've always called it battle shock.  When you're warned that a situation is going to happen (like the dude pulls out the knife and threatens to stab someone) you can mentally prepare for something but when it suddenly just HAPPENS pretty much everyone but the most hardened badasses instantly freezes as their brain processes the situation.

Man... I don't know about you guys but this is just fucked. Like un provoked, he didn't seem fazed at what he was doing at all. It's just so screwed up.
In my oppinion I don't think I could've stood there and done nothing or left the bus. I'd regret the decision for the rest of my life.  Like atleast try to get the knife away from him before you run or something? I don't know... this whole situation is just shocking. There's obviously something wrong with you... you don't just turn to the guy next to you and start killing. This guy is fucked... In my oppinion I think he had the whole thing planned out... he knew he was going to kill someone and he had the materiel he needed, the only thing he didn't know was who he would target.
As for why people didn't stop him, I'm going to say it was just the shock factor, especially when something happens llike that just so suddenly... the fact that he did it without rage or any emotion what so ever would totally add to the whole shock thing.

this is pretty horrifying i mean could you imagine being there. also if this dude had a knife why didnt anyone try to stop him?? a bus full of people and a dude has ONE KNIFE and they just calmly walk off the bus? i mean the kid was probably a goner but how can you resist the opportunity for some vigilante justice?

This + all the other posts like it + MOG: our minds have psychological blocks in these kind of situations. It's called Bystander Apathy, medically. You can read it here: http://www.spring.org.uk/2007/10/why-we-dont-help-others-bystander.php.

Basically, your mind is programmed (so to speak) in such a way that the more people that are around in a bad situation, you won't want to do anything and just watch because your mind assumes (given a quick scan of the situation) that other people are going to do it and it isn't worth the risk.

Except, everyone else is thinking the same thing, which initiates the flight response from everyone since everyone assumes everyone else is going to do something. Breaking Bystander Apathy requires you to either have a screwed up mind, or to be trained against it. You basically have to be mentally trained to help out in situations like that, cause the average person (read: that's a fucking lot of people) who are psychologically normal are going to run in that situation. Generally, people who have been in the army, boxing, etc get the training to go against this because in these fields they are trained to generally prevent the flight response (unless ordered to retreat). Boxer's for example get hit all the time, and to the average person you try to defend yourself (if you can) then run away, but boxer's are trained to break the flight response and keep fighting until the fight ends. That helps them "break" bystander apathy.

You can say "busload of people" all you fucking want, but unless if every single person on that bus was psychologically not normal or psychologically trained to break bystander apathy, they aren't gonna do anything, and neither are you.

The freaking Bystander apathy is also called the Genovese syndrome, after Kitty Genovese who got stabbed and raped and 38 people were around and no one did anything! It was exaggerated (about only 1/3rd of the people saw something in actuality according to witness reports) but still! You can keep talking about how its a group of people but Social Loafing (people less likely to do goals when more people are around) and Responsibility Diffusion (placing less responsibility on yourself when more people are around) are both proven psychological effects. Since everyone isn't doing anything, everyone assumes help isn't needed, and that just causes Social Proof (causing the nature of the situation to be determined by the majority because you assume other people have more knowledge. IE: NO HELP NEEDED NO ONE IS HELPING) and pluralistic ignorance (people who have a different opinion, follow other people's opinions because they assume they are unanimously right. I'm sure someone on that bus had a different idea that help was needed, but didn't follow out because of this psychological effect) to happen.

Now marcus would have done something I'm sure, but simply because he is in the Navy and even people in the Navy are trained to basically break the flight response. MOG/gr/whoever, unless if you are psychologically NOT RIGHT or trained to specifically break this response, you wouldn't have done shit. I wouldn't have done shit. The only way you can get around the bystander effect is if you target a specific person in the audience (since you're placing responsibility on one person, instead of giving it to everyone), and considering this guy was getting stabbed I don't think he could really go "YOU. *POINTS TO GUY* CALL POLICE NOW." in his mind. He probably yelled HELP, which just triggers the effect.

EDIT:
Also to the people who are all "i'm 19" or w/e, living life in fear of unpredictable stuff like this is a bad way to live. It's just an uncontrollable unpredictable event! You're probably more likely to hit the lottery than getting decapitated on the bus any time soon.

This is scarily true. I've seen it before =\.
I think I need to train myself against that. Not that I want to end up being a 'super hero'. I just think it's something very necessary.

DarkNecrid, thanks for doing the research on the Bystander Syndrome, and especially on Kitty Genovese. I was going to, but I guess not. Thanks for that.

But yeah, even with my knowledge on that, I think I still may have done something, even stupidly. I don't know. I admit it's probably unwise to say. I admit I couldn't do anything in a situation like that.

MOG/gr/whoever, unless if you are psychologically NOT RIGHT or trained to specifically break this response, you wouldn't have done shit.

This post stuck out to me, because while you're right on a general level, on a personal level (as in, me), I'm not sure! Like I said, I spent most of my life growing up in some of the most dangerous ghettos of Pittsburgh, and I've been mixed up in a LOT of fucked up shit, and I've seen even more fucked up shit. Not that I'm going "I've seen my fair share of stabbings, kid...", but, I think perhaps I've been in enough situations where my flight or fight response, or perception of such is kinda fucked up? So maybe that's why I'm saying I would be so willing to help (even though I know logically, in that situation I wouldn't), or I'm surprised that nobody helped? I don't know, you tell me!

jesus man i've said multiple times that i cannot and would not do anything. calm down dude.

Dude, I am calm! I'm just saying (it was mostly directed towards Mog anyways, your post was just the first as I reread through the topic and I originally quoted it.)

So yea HL maybe it is healthy for people to think 'I'm going to react' so that they actually do. I hate Mog to no end but I think he's got a point about how few people did something to assist and I credit him and GR for calling out the other people on the bus.

Also I'm going to look into it more but Bystander Apathy is probably far from universal and you are 'not programmed' wrong (hahah seriously) if you don't react that way.

That won't change anything. Just because you say you will do something, doesn't mean you will at all.

And...yes programmed. It's about the only word that fits. People have similar mindsets, because they are "programmed" (insert a more correct word here) to react that way. Most males like larger tits because it means the woman will be a better mom by giving their children more milk which in turn makes them healthier as a kid (but they probably don't think this, it is generally the reason behind it). Most woman like men with larger dicks because it gives a slightly better chance of conception and because it makes them look more "manly") (again, they probably don't think this). Most people run away from stuff when they get attacked. Most people are affected by Bystander Apathy. Most people develop in the same way. Most people can't shoot another human being dead, unless if they would die otherwise. Do I really have to go on? There is an entire specific branch of psychology called Abnormal Psychology just for abnormal mindsets and such, because in general a majority of people are indeed PROGRAMMED or told or WHATEVER THE FUCK WORD I CANT THINK OF A BETTER ONE OK to act in certain ways. There are ways to break a lot of these things (something the Army does extensively) such as being unable to shoot another human being if they haven't done anything to you, etc. That isn't to say everyone is the exact same (there are men who don't like big tits at all, women who like micropenis', people who fight it out all the time without ever running, people who don't follow bystander apathy, people who develop SUPER FAST, and people who develop SUPER SLOW, people who can shoot a human being dead without care or decapitate them without a thought, but those people are generally not the norm at all.

I believe the proper term is different mindset, which shouldn't label you mentally ill.

Yeh I said fucked up but I was in a rush. I didn't mean mentally ill fucked up, just different.

But yeah, even with my knowledge on that, I think I still may have done something, even stupidly. I don't know. I admit it's probably unwise to say. I admit I couldn't do anything in a situation like that.

Well that's my point, you may have done something, but given the large group of people, you most likely wouldn't have, and neither would have anyone else. Unless if there was someone trained against that stuff or something, I would almost bet money this situation would have played out the same nearly every single time if you threw random groups of people in the same situation! It's not really their fault that they are trained (I GUESS THIS WORKS INSTEAD OF PROGRAMMED) to act that way in that situation.

Well that's my point, you may have done something, but given the large group of people, you most likely wouldn't have, and neither would have anyone else. Unless if there was someone trained against that stuff or something, I would almost bet money this situation would have played out the same nearly every single time if you threw random groups of people in the same situation! It's not really their fault that they are trained (I GUESS THIS WORKS INSTEAD OF PROGRAMMED) to act that way in that situation.

Couldn't you argue that a different upbringing influences programming, though? Like you said, being in the military and whatnot influences programming, but couldn't one assume that growing up around gang violence, shootings, getting jumped, and being in constant fights (and you can't run away from any of them) might sort of alter that sort of programming?

Couldn't you argue that a different upbringing influences programming, though? Like you said, being in the military and whatnot influences programming, but couldn't one assume that growing up around gang violence, shootings, getting jumped, and being in constant fights (and you can't run away from any of them) might sort of alter that sort of programming?

Depends. It isn't like Batman where you see someone get shot and you're instantly in a batsuit saving the day every day. If anything it could have the effect of you being more afraid of those kind of situations. I'm talking in a very general majority aspect tho. Marcus is pretty much a sure thing, but I can't really say FOR SURE if you would or not, and that's not really the point of the topic or my posts, my point was that blaming the people on the bus and going OMG THERE WAS A TON OF PEOPLE ON THE BUS WHY DIDN'T THEY DO ANYTHING is fundamentally wrong from a psychological and mental standpoint. MAYBE you would have done something, but then again MAYBE he would have stabbed and killed you too while everyone else ran away.

Oh, I see what you're saying, I was just wondering.

OMG THERE WAS A TON OF PEOPLE ON THE BUS WHY DIDN'T THEY DO ANYTHING is fundamentally wrong from a psychological and mental standpoint.

I don't want to say it's flat out FUNDAMENTALLY PSYCHOLOGICALLY wrong, though! I took some psychology classes myself, and I hate, hate slapping a psychological construct on everyone and assuming they're WIRED WRONG if they don't adhere to it, assuming it's not something like "Don't eat your kids", or "Mass murder" or something. I think you're going a bit far with that.

It sounds UNSCIENTIFIC to say, but you have to realize that many scientific constructs (especially a LOT of shit in psychology) are just shit some dude made up. That's the kiss of death to say that apparently, but it's truer than you think.

Oh, I see what you're saying, I was just wondering. I don't want to say it's flat out FUNDAMENTALLY PSYCHOLOGICALLY wrong, though! I took some psychology classes myself, and I hate, hate slapping a psychological construct on everyone and assuming they're WIRED WRONG if they don't adhere to it, assuming it's not something like "Don't eat your kids", or "Mass murder" or something. I think you're going a bit far with that.

I didn't say anything like that but maybe I am missing what you are talking about. It's not that they are wired wrong just wired differently (I touched on my explaining this in prev. post)...tho there are obviously things we could classify as wired wrong (I think decapitating people without feeling remorse would be one of those things).

I don't want to say it's flat out FUNDAMENTALLY PSYCHOLOGICALLY wrong, though! I took some psychology classes myself, and I hate, hate slapping a psychological construct on everyone and assuming they're WIRED WRONG if they don't adhere to it, assuming it's not something like "Don't eat your kids", or "Mass murder" or something. I think you're going a bit far with that.

It sounds UNSCIENTIFIC to say, but you have to realize that many scientific constructs (especially a LOT of shit in psychology) are just shit some dude made up. That's the kiss of death to say that apparently, but it's truer than you think.

MOG where in Pittsburgh did you grow up? What neighborhood? Because unless it was Homewood, Liberty, or maybe the Hill District, you're full of shit. Ugh forget it. I'm done trying to logically reason with you. Fine, maybe you would have done something, but I doubt it, because of the guys on the bus, there's probably some TOUGH GUYS who would have jumped in except for the fact that they were scared shitless.

SO YES MOG, tons of psychology is JUST SHIT SOME DUDE MADE UP. exactly MOG. this is why you are qualified to take on armed psychopaths.

is this fighting you've been in the same fighting that you got into because the neighborhood thugs were jealous because you were so good looking?

*cracks knuckles* TREG, what are you doing here. We have a war we are supposed to be fightin'!

Dude, we're talking about fighting. Look whose birthday it is today! DR. CASEY. HOW DOES IT FEEL TO BE FIGHTIN' THE GUY WHOSE FISTS ARE AS FAST AS LIGHTNIN'

MOG where in Pittsburgh did you grow up? What neighborhood? Because unless it was Homewood, Liberty, or maybe the Hill District, you're full of shit.

You got it! Also consider that East Hills is exceedingly dangerous and shitty and that's where I was born and lived until I was about 4 or so.

Ugh forget it. I'm done trying to logically reason with you. Fine, maybe you would have done something, but I doubt it, because of the guys on the bus, there's probably some TOUGH GUYS who would have jumped in except for the fact that they were scared shitless.

I just said that back there I was speaking out of impulse and I acceded that I probably wouldn't have done anything.

SO YES MOG, tons of psychology is JUST SHIT SOME DUDE MADE UP. exactly MOG. this is why you are qualified to take on armed psychopaths.

I didn't say psychology as a whole is a hack, I'm just saying that nobody should take all of psychology, or any other science as 100% gospel and apply it to 100% of the population. Psychology especially is one of the sciences that's revised the most. Hell, look at how people view Freud nowadays. I'm not really disagreeing with anyone directly here.

Is this fighting you've been in the same fighting that you got into because the neighborhood thugs were jealous because you were so good looking?

Perhaps that may have been a factor. Is that what you want me to say? Holy shit, now that I think about it that's a pretty low and shitty thing to say, asking me if I was in constant fights, danger, and exposed to gang violence and generally had a shitty life when I was younger because people were "JEALOUS OF MY PRETTY LOOKS"?

Fuck you.

I'm definitely gonna be keeping an eye out for more stuff on this article. I imagine like a lot of you, I wanna know what logic/motive/thought process, lead him to do this. I do agree that, that dude deserves to get fucking beaten for what he did. But, it wasn't going to happen on the scene. Sure there were like 30+ people. But, the majority of them were probably just regular people. And seeing that would just set off any self preservation instincts they have.