Boring What the shit (Read 1546 times)

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If you try and think about it most of the world's problems are caused by our ways of thinking: Greed, Hatred, Ignorance, Self-righteousness, conceit, Miss guided belief systems and lack of empathy to name a few. Core human emotions and survival techniques that often do us harm as a whole. The elite making decisions that effect us all, guiding us into paths many of us may not choose. Supposedly for the better of us all but not so much when you really think about it.

So many arguments are started because of "I DONT UNDERSTAND YOU OR WHERE YOU'RE COMING FROM FUCK YOU" regardless of which viewpoint is right or wrong.

Is there any way around this? Will we grow in intellect and understanding and one day grasp the concept of universal love and understanding?

If so whats the answer?

Research into Psychedelic drugs? Mind control? Evolution? Technology? Strict sets of laws given by enlightened men to guide the unenlightened? Music and art? What will form men into what they must be?

What, if anything. Will drive us to a higher plane of understanding and totality?

It seems like the way of men is to fuck other men to survive and flourish, when the technology and resources to do better and make ourselves more fitting as a whole are discarded and labeled as unethical. Are we to just wait? Are we to sit by and wait for our peers to catch up to what must come? Are we to wait until evolution forces us into a new path? Or are we to waste into unexistance?

I know this sounds pretty preachy and clouded but what is the next step? Who are we to become if anything other than a dull mark off in the cosmos?

Animals kill to survive. Humans kill to survive. We aren't so different, but at the same time aren't we smart enough to grow past that stage? Tribes band together to survive the environment they're given, but what about if all of our tribes have surpassed that? What are we to do? Fight and kill one another until we've expended all of our resources?

I don't study Philosophy or whatever this way of thinking is, but its really interesting to me and I'd like to see what other people think.

So where do you think we'll be in 10, 50, 100 more years? I'd like to think that we would've all grown past our misjudgments and bigotry. But will that ever happen? Will we keep finding others to hate and fight or will we become something more?

I'd like to think I've got a good grasp of what is happening in the world and what people think, but maybe my sense of "this is all wrong, what in the hell are we doing?" is ignorance.
Maybe I've not been through enough hardship and pain to feel the way others do when they're so hateful and angry. But no matter which way I try to look at it, it all seems misguided and stupid.

I'm probably just thinking too much though...
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Well... you see... we havn't conquered nature or our own instincts. You see sure our minds may be on a higher level but our bodies are not. Honestly though the next step is snuffing ourselves out from our own ignorance. We havn't conquered anything (nature) at all, and fighting to escape our nature would be to cast away everything we consider both natural and human, especially human rights and morality. By achieving the big bad answer to everything we'd be doing things that today is considered crazy like say embracing death, or throwing away that old thought process of growing food for the growing population.

But the one thing that will never go away is dominance, you see there needs to be dominance for there to be order. Without order then were pretty much a rag tag band of squabblers out for themselves being completely indifferent towards eachother, lost, and confused.

But this is me, I believe that love love was a human made up emotion to begin with.

Just don't dwell on this too much, or else you'll probably get depressed or feel like what you do is pointless... or fry your brain whatever comes first.
A tool is a tool regardless. I mean if you suck, you suck, and not even the most perfect tool could save you. And if your damn good then even with the worst tool ever conceived you could chug out some high quality shit.
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what? people are bigger, stronger, faster and smarter than they were 100 years ago

also on topic, a place full of universal love and understanding would be like 4chan

somethingawful disapproves of a lot and they're arguably better.
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I'm already like that and I can't really help it but it only gets bad when I'm on something because my filter goes away and then BOOOM massive trains of thought that I can't stop until I sober up.

But yeah...

Whose to say love is a made up emotion? I don't want to hurt anyone or harm anyone because I objectively love everyone until wrong is done unto me.

I'm talking love in the: "You are my fellow man, we both share an existence in this world and I will try my hardest to understand where you're coming from and who you are. All the while trying not to harm you and help you if I can."

Why can't men love one another like brothers and women like sisters? Why can't we do this and try to heal the ones that are sick? The ones that might stray and do harm to others? Why can't we help one another so we don't start out in fucked up situations that might lead us to being stray and sick? Keeping people in cages because of their nature and the environment that they grew up in seems incredibly fucked up to me. But at the same time I don't want to put them to death. I want to give them a chance to live and become constructive members of society, I want to fix them and make them better people.

Also, whats wrong with trying to feed everyone? Why can't we learn to control our birthrate and colonize other planets so we don't have to starve one another? Whats wrong with that? It seems perfectly sensible and worthy a cause, rather than starving one another.

I agree with accepting death, but at the same time why shouldn't we strive harder to beat death? To cure the incurable and make our lives last longer? Why shouldn't we try to achieve these things? Wasted resources? Wouldn't these things be one of our bigger concerns if we weren't hindered by unnecessary strife?


EDIT: I get what you're saying about 4chan and Something awful. I'm fine with calling something stupid that is conceivably stupid. But what I'm talking about is understanding where the stupidity comes from and trying to better the people that are stupid so they aren't nearly as stupid.

So you don't have either. Or maybe you have both in a lesser volume of stupidity/anger 
Last Edit: October 26, 2008, 09:37:10 am by Coxswain
DEUCE: MEETING THE URINE UP CLOSE AND PERSONAL AND REALIZING IT'S JUST LIKE ME AND MY PREJUDICES  THIS WHOLE TIME WERE COMPLETELY FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF PTTTTHTHTHH GOD IT'S EVERYWHERE<br />DEUCE: FUCK THIS TASTES LIKE PISS<br />PANTS: WHERE IT SHOULD TASTE LIKE COTTON CANDY OR PICKLES<br />DEUCE: OR AT LEAST LIKE URINE NOT PISS
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what? people are bigger, stronger, faster and smarter than they were 100 years ago

also on topic, a place full of universal love and understanding would be like 4chan

somethingawful disapproves of a lot and they're arguably better.
tolerance for really terrible shit isn't the same as universal love and understanding.  there's nothing LOVING or UNDERSTANDING about shit like /b/ at all; all they do is tolerate really awful behvaior that shows a distinct LACK of love/understanding.  a site like 4chan wouldnt even exist if it was what you were talking about.
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First things first, i'd rather die then live forever. For me "living forever" and "beating" death is equal to true damnation and besides the prospect of death makes life more enjoyable. Beating death just withers away what little beauty is left around here. Besides our corpses return to the earth, and give nutrients to the living (plants...) and provide to life.

To control our breeding habits is pretty much a form of mind control, most notably the part where our instinctive wanting of sex is turned off seeing as how the whole breed more process is instinctive when dealing with food supply. Turning off our instincts is also a pretty stupid idea, because that'd screw up almost all our emotions and thinking patterns. Theres already electrodes for curing Chronic Depression and this will pave the way for what your brain ,decided by "society" and "professionals" I might add, should be mapped a certain way for you to be "normal". It's still oppressive but the oppression is justified. Hence dominance.

Now we can't all love eachother because one of our main hurdles is a pack mindset which has pretty much been with us for a long long time. Your either in the circle, or your not. If your not your either close too or not. It's been like that for a long time.

Loving everyone requries a very... trained unique mentality or train of thought to have that way of love. And very very few do have it. The pack mindset I mentioned earlier is the most common form of mindset around.
Last Edit: October 26, 2008, 10:16:36 am by Boulvae
A tool is a tool regardless. I mean if you suck, you suck, and not even the most perfect tool could save you. And if your damn good then even with the worst tool ever conceived you could chug out some high quality shit.
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I never said "to live forever", I meant to prevent death. To make our lives longer and more enjoyable. If your life is prosperous and great why would you want to die?  Yes, of course eventually you will die. I don't think we'll ever find a way to be truly immortal.

And if you're buried in a casket surrounded by 5 feet of solid concrete, I don't think you'll be returning to anything.

And I'm not talking about controlling breeding habits or stopping the will to have sex.

If we can make birth control more convenient and easier to use, if we can teach safe sex in schools. I think we could cut the birth rate down to a safer level. Why can't we come up with a safe pill that makes you temporarily shoot blanks? Why can't we work to cure all of the STDs so you don't have to wear a condom and just use the pills given? If we can make birth control incredibly simple and convenient then wouldn't people want to use it? Condoms tear, people refuse to use them because they're uncomfortable and not nearly as pleasurable, not to mention they can still fail. if we can work around this why shouldn't we?

Why can't that pack mindset be extended to humanity in its entirety? Why can't we all just be "one big pack" looking out for one another?
Last Edit: October 26, 2008, 10:34:39 am by Coxswain
DEUCE: MEETING THE URINE UP CLOSE AND PERSONAL AND REALIZING IT'S JUST LIKE ME AND MY PREJUDICES  THIS WHOLE TIME WERE COMPLETELY FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF PTTTTHTHTHH GOD IT'S EVERYWHERE<br />DEUCE: FUCK THIS TASTES LIKE PISS<br />PANTS: WHERE IT SHOULD TASTE LIKE COTTON CANDY OR PICKLES<br />DEUCE: OR AT LEAST LIKE URINE NOT PISS
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That was an over exageration of living a long life, you know answering that famous Star Ship Troopers question "do you wanna live forever?!!?!?!" However by extending life as much as possible is just our atempt at trying to achieve immortality and always has been to escape deaths grasp. Conquering death is in my mind a blind misguided ambition, for me living a short enjoyable life is as good as living a long and dull (quit possibly torturous) one.

Well you see... a pill that makes us shoot blanks is equal to getting your nots cut (but not cut off) and permanently tainting your sperm so you'll never impregnate anyone ever again. You could make a pill for that but if it's too good to be true then it is. Besides sex was NEVER ment to be a leisure thing, it feels good as an insurance that we actually continue to do it to propogate and continue the species. Doing it leisurely is a step backwards in "ascension" to the next level. Now for expression (not I love you I wanna do you, but more artistic)... well that may be different but that is a very rare mindset.

Not many people can comprehend a scale that big (over a billion my god), and alot of people fear the unknown and reject it. Thus alot of people reject things they don't know like those deep south guys not knowing what Islamic citizens are actually like or how it's only a small group of people were at war with and hence assume all sorts of nasty things like all of them are evil terrorists (fresh example).
Last Edit: October 26, 2008, 10:49:21 am by Boulvae
A tool is a tool regardless. I mean if you suck, you suck, and not even the most perfect tool could save you. And if your damn good then even with the worst tool ever conceived you could chug out some high quality shit.
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I don't study Philosophy or whatever this way of thinking is, but its really interesting to me and I'd like to see what other people think.

        If University taught me anything, it was that being educated is not indicative of one's intelligence. Where others see "Educated" and "Learned," I see "Conditioned" and "Deluded." As you stated, Coxswain: you try to bear objective love for everyone equally, unless they betray your faith in their spiritual (if you could call it that) integrity.

        I believe that the problem you're addressing is the result of the subjective penetrating the equation. When viewed in the abstract (or the "objective"), the world appears to be a lot simpler than it actually is. It's easy to make assumptions based on a crude intellectual or moral code. One may argue that killing is wrong, but is it wrong when committing murder is the most efficient route to preventing numerous murders? (e.g. Adolf Hitler's suicide initiating the beginning of the end for the Third Reich)

        History, both recent and ancient, would lead us to believe that in this case the ends truly justify the means. But what actual justification is there, other than this code that we have written for ourselves? It's a construct: a tool with which to define what is, in the abstract, without form, and thus does not make "sense."   

        There has been much debate in regard to the unification of the European states. Whilst there is the EU, many have proposed a tighter alliance akin to the United States of America. Personally, I'm of the opinion that it's a goal that's far beyond our reach. Why? Because it would require a great deal of compromise: cultural, economic, social, etc. What one state considers right, it is almost certain that another will view it as wrong.

        In a democratic society the majority rule, and the minority are left to sit and grumble about the "injustice" of the system. In an autocratic or dictatorial society the minority rule, and the majority are left to pick up the tab for the shortcomings of their government. Whilst the totalitarian model is perhaps most effective in times when swift decisions need to be made (war, economic instability, etc), the democratic model partly ensures that any decisions made have been informed by numerous sources, accurate or not. The output of a democratic decision is an average. While it may be more here than it is there, it is neither here nor there. The process is a lot slower, but the result is likely to be more accurate than if it were made by a single administrative body.       

Or is it?

        I think we're kidding ourselves when we refer to the human race as a "Higher" lifeform. We still need to eat, we still need to shit, we still need to sleep and we still have the overwhelming desire or need to procreate. We try to convince ourselves that we're going to live forever, even if that only means avoiding a confrontation with the topic of death. Chances are we're probably doomed, even if we can send a man into space or innoculate ourselves against potentially fatal diseases. The majority attribute climate change to our technological indulgence, but maybe our time's up. As far as I'm aware the global warming debate is still in fierce motion, regardless of how sure our scientists are of our involvement in the impending meteorological apocalypse.

To bring this long-winded post to a succinct conclusion I shall answer your question(s):

Is there any way around this? Will we grow in intellect and understanding and one day grasp the concept of universal love and understanding?

If so whats the answer?

Research into Psychedelic drugs? Mind control? Evolution? Technology? Strict sets of laws given by enlightened men to guide the unenlightened? Music and art? What will form men into what they must be?

What, if anything. Will drive us to a higher plane of understanding and totality?

        I believe mankind has doomed itself in order to progress. As paradoxical as that may sound, these constructs (the subjective) that we have fabricated ensure that universal peace and love is, like the United States of Europe, a goal that is far beyond our grasp. We've tied too many knots, and I am of the opinion that there are two extreme solutions:

Dictatorial: We slaughter a majority of the world's population, reducing it to a small number of like-minded individuals. From hereon population control and a strict system of education ensure that diversity, and thus doubt, is eliminated. The result is a solid and definite direction: a yellow brick road which we hope will one day lead us to Oz.

Democratic: We work together, slowly but surely, to eradicate cultural boundaries (religious, racial, political, etc...). Over time we get closer to a common goal, informed by all corners of thought. The chances are therefore higher that the resulting average will be more accurate than not.

        As you may have deduced, both solutions are flawed. If we go the Dictatorial route, we have no way of knowing if the path we're being led down is the correct one, if indeed there is a path at all (going back to the notion of "constructs"). And if we decide that the Democratic model is best suited to the prosperity of mankind, the process of deconstruction may be so long that we die-out before we ever discover true "Universal Love."

We either delude or delay. One thing's for certain, though (given the current climate): we are doomed.

        What I would personally propose is not to cease progression because "there's no point", but to stop bloody worrying about it and make the most of the time that we still have, however short. You never know, we may even stumble upon the solution by accident one day. It's funny how lost items turn up right under your nose once you've stopped stressing about where you may have left them.

I'm not counting on it though. But what do I know? What does everyone else know, for that matter?

(Boy, that sure was a "succinct" conclusion, eh?)
Last Edit: October 26, 2008, 11:48:36 am by OddButInteresting
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I'm thinking right now that sentience is the ultimate stage of evolution, not because the process intrinsically stops working once this is attained but because from here on our technology will take over, changing our bodies/being into new forms. If evolution did continue we wouldn't evolve as one species any more, since when a useful adaptation evolves somewhere, it would not cause humans without it to die off since in our current culture we no longer let the disadvantaged die like that. Sure it may edventually propogate through the entire species but the time required to do that without survival of the fittest would be so long that by the time it had done so the adaptation would msot likely be obsolete due to some new technology invented somewhere down the line. The point here in relation to the topic is that we can't rely on evolution "fixing" humanity and making us into a more agreeable species that could work together.

So we're left with our animal instincts and natural emotions, both good and bad. Sort of a light and dark side of man. On one hand we have compassion, love and the desire to progress and so on, and on the other we have spite, greed and hatred etc. I guess we all have parts of ourselves from both sides, some more than others, eg I expect Robert Mugabe has a few more negative parts to him than Mother Teresa.

What annoys me about the whole process is that so many in high places are greedy and selfish, that they couldn't care less about mankind moving forward, or if mankind moving forward as a species, curing all diseases, colonising space etc makes it harder for them to line their pockets it can go to hell. Or to give a less dreamy futuristic example; with enough energy and time put into it would no doubt be possible to convert the world to using sustainable sources of energy, which could be absolutely vital to keeping this planet in some way habitable for future generations. Building tidal barrages, engineering methods to use the shit ton of potential energy right beneath our feet, nuclear fusion etc, but we don't. And its only because of greedy motherfuckers in the oil/gas/coal or whatever industries. "W-WHAT use renewable power, save the planet!!?? WHATS IN IT FOR ME". It reminds me of a dilbert cartoon where some aliens come down and offer to share their secrets for ending world hunger, and get a response of "whats in it for me", its cynical, but all too true.


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Can you please not swear in your thread titles, kids visit this forum
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*Initial Post and other posts*
I've thought about this sort of thing as well. Especially the advancing our technology part and putting off death. although the latter to maybe a stronger degree then maybe even what you think.

Well... you see... we havn't conquered nature or our own instincts. You see sure our minds may be on a higher level but our bodies are not. Honestly though the next step is snuffing ourselves out from our own ignorance. We havn't conquered anything (nature) at all, and fighting to escape our nature would be to cast away everything we consider both natural and human, especially human rights and morality. By achieving the big bad answer to everything we'd be doing things that today is considered crazy like say embracing death, or throwing away that old thought process of growing food for the growing population.
Are you suggesting the only way for us to progress to "The next step" is by dying off as a species? or am I misinterpreting you? If I'm not, I am confused, what would be to point then if we just died off?
The rest of the stuff on this post I don't agree or disagree with.

First things first, i'd rather die then live forever. For me "living forever" and "beating" death is equal to true damnation and besides the prospect of death makes life more enjoyable. Beating death just withers away what little beauty is left around here. Besides our corpses return to the earth, and give nutrients to the living (plants...) and provide to life.
1) I would rather live forever personally.
2) How? how does the prospect that you are going to die at some point make your life more enjoyable?
3) What is beauty to you? Wouldn't you consider better that you get to enjoy this beauty forever? how would this beauty "wither" away exactly?
4) We're put in coffins though that seal us off. Also, if you're dead what is the point in "providing"?

Now we can't all love eachother because one of our main hurdles is a pack mindset which has pretty much been with us for a long long time. Your either in the circle, or your not. If your not your either close too or not. It's been like that for a long time.
Yeah I agree with you here. I also think it is selfish that we haven't tried to conquer and remove this mindset and to think we can't fix it.

Loving everyone requries a very... trained unique mentality or train of thought to have that way of love. And very very few do have it. The pack mindset I mentioned earlier is the most common form of mindset around.
I don't think it does, we are just to selfish and want to hold on to hate, anger, rage, and spite. I can honestly say that I truly hate no one. I can't say that I love everyone though. I have people I don't get along with, people that I dislike or disagree with a lot, but I don't hate anyone. there are things that I do hate though. But they are all just concepts, events, actions, etc.

That was an over exageration of living a long life, you know answering that famous Star Ship Troopers question "do you wanna live forever?!!?!?!" However by extending life as much as possible is just our atempt at trying to achieve immortality and always has been to escape deaths grasp. Conquering death is in my mind a blind misguided ambition, for me living a short enjoyable life is as good as living a long and dull (quit possibly torturous) one.
I'm a little confused with your wording here. but I think I the gist of it. My only reply is: I'd rather be alive and bored, then dead. Because if your alive, there is the possibility that you wont be bored at some point and maybe you will even have an awesome time at some point. If you dead you can't feel or be anything more or new.

Well you see... a pill that makes us shoot blanks is equal to getting your nots cut (but not cut off) and permanently tainting your sperm so you'll never impregnate anyone ever again. You could make a pill for that but if it's too good to be true then it is. Besides sex was NEVER ment to be a leisure thing, it feels good as an insurance that we actually continue to do it to propogate and continue the species. Doing it leisurely is a step backwards in "ascension" to the next level. Now for expression (not I love you I wanna do you, but more artistic)... well that may be different but that is a very rare mindset.
ARGGHGHG(*YR#%$ how is having sex leisurely a step backwards? GOD DAMN IT I WANT SEX ROBOTS.



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christ that is a big post you got there.

I don't think that there is a ultimate love. I think advancements can be made forever. and while there is no point I don't believe their needs to be other then for ourselves. Everyone and the individuals. oh and the dictatorial route you list is CREEPY. The democratic route is slower but that is not really relevant IMHO. If we died trying at least we tried. Having everyone at the same mindset WOULD make life boring. So if there was a "perfection" we could reach it wouldn't be EVERYONE AGREES WITH EVERYONE. It'd be everyone tolerates each other to the degree that they wont murder each other.
Last Edit: October 26, 2008, 12:45:47 pm by warpped655
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What is going on with these colors guys?
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jesus harry you get stoned/drunk and type out abunch of stoned/drunk ramblings and people respond with huge ass posts.
What is going on with these colors guys?
i assumed that warpped was making fun of oddbutinteresting at the beginning of his post.
Last Edit: October 26, 2008, 12:46:48 pm by Alec
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What is going on with these colors guys?
Don't you like color?
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Oh I assumed he was making fun of it too, I just don't get why it happened in the first place.  I want to start color-coding my posts by positive/negative phrases now too.

I'm apparently very negative.
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i'm neutral
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Oh I assumed he was making fun of it too, I just don't get why it happened in the first place.  I want to start color-coding my posts by positive/negative phrases now too.

I'm apparently very negative.

I dunno I guess I must have seen him do it and then i started doing it to make it more clear what I was responding to exactly. It isn't a bad idea really... though it makes making the post itself a bit more time consuming...
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Allow me to clarfiy myself a little more, by next step is snuffing ourselves out i'm saying were doomed. Not everyone dieing is the next step to a higher level, or it might be if your one of those more "positive" idealists.

Beauty is subjective but to be frank you'll just get bored over it over time if you don't control yourself and expose yourself to it constantly.

It's like savering your last meal before being hanged, with death looming over your life waiting to write you off the list (metaphors...). you basically start to appreciate life and the little things thats how life is more enjoyable with death in the mix. The fact that you don't understand what I was saying tells me you've never faced a near death crisis or experience (I almost drowned 3 timee...)

That pack mindset has ensured our survival before we started "evolving" with agriculture and deluding ourselves.

Hating is subjective, Loving is subjective. Regardless of either you are not a "love all" kind of guy your a "tolerante everything" kinda guy which is different, very different.

Living a dull (or torturous) life hoping it'll brighten up down the road is well just that, hope, and let me tell you you it doesn't brighten up unless you make it brighten up.

...

We've never conquered nature, we've only learned how it works by trying to conquer it. Our egos are so high the reason robots only actually have come out of existence at all (okay sooner but... you know what I mean) recently is because we tried to achieve "human" replicas when we never actually tried (until recently) to make robots that are actually efficient and conventional. We wanted to make robots (sci-fi kind) for convenience then for actual conventional things and logisitical benifits for "society".
Last Edit: October 26, 2008, 04:50:26 pm by Boulvae
A tool is a tool regardless. I mean if you suck, you suck, and not even the most perfect tool could save you. And if your damn good then even with the worst tool ever conceived you could chug out some high quality shit.
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Uhm, excuse me, but maybe you need some "G-O-D"  in your life heh
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