I agree, and I think that's probably the most reasonable way to look at it. I can't blame anyone for being sensitive to david's wellbeing, but as far as any post in this thread would indicate there is really no reason to believe with any amount of certainty that david liebe hart is being wronged and tNe are stupid dumb idiots for having him on the show. unless possibly if you are making up a verbal excuse to represent feelings you don't understand?? not to say anyone itt is doing this because I don't really know, it's just something I witness a lot in design and it seems like the most common reason behind a poor critique besides simple misunderstanding.

i've not seen a great deal of episodes but i presumed everyone on there was acting. i don't know if this is better or worse

I'm sure Tim and Eric are smart enough to realize that with so many people enjoying the funny songs he performs on stage, that more than a few of them view this person as entertaining on a basis where they look down to him and only find him enjoyable as some unstable freak with a really awkward taste in puppetry. That doesn't mean it was their intention to present him as such in order to only appeal to and entertain the folk that view him as such, and it certainly doesn't mean they need to take responsibility for how a certain subset of people may view one of the people they are collaborating with when they present his work to them. (especially when the majority of those people most likely hold the exact same opinion of Tim and Eric themselves) They may very well may have a lot stronger feelings on the matter since they know the guy personally enough to work with him based on their own reasons to enjoy the things he does for themselves.

They probably didn't really think about it too much beyond the mere fact that there could be plenty of other people out there with reasons to enjoy watching this man, and that they should make him a part of their show just on that merit alone.

i really do have difficulty accepting this as fact or even all that likely, which is to a point essential in appreciating their show. i think tim and eric's portrayal of concepts in their show is actually overwhelmingly negative the majority of the time. i didn't find this to be the case as much in season 1, but after that it appeared to me that the jokes became progressively less light-hearted and legitimately meant to criticize the concepts and people under the microscope rather than attempt to embrace them. much of their show really IS disgusting people doing legitimately objectionable things, and i grew more and more uninterested in the show when it began to feel less and less like an odd tribute to awkward or disconnected people and more like some form of commentary. when things like this occur next to these odd freakshow people, i find it exceptionally difficult to figure out what the function of these odd people are, since they really aren't portrayed in a positive light either and really DON'T have a function within the show greater than highlighting their deficiencies. the line between being things they visibly dislike and the things they insist they like is completely nonexistent within the show.

yeah, at the end of the day i don't really know one way or another exactly what they hoped to get out of guys like hart and quall in the context of their show, but i've got enough serious doubts on the matter that i find difficult to overlook completely. and i admit that i definitely COULD overlook it if the show had some otherwise strong element that made the show worthy of attention. unfortunately, i don't really think it does.

not everything deserves to be put down or to be cynically scrutinized. all you'll really accomplish by doing so is to annoy people you'd otherwise agree with. or in an argument you may come to realize the liberties you've been granting the humor you do like, simply because you've found no reason to rip into it. that is just an awful way to live, and it makes it difficult to really enjoy anything. every form of art has its own group of annoying cynical hypercritics. it works best with the visual arts like painting, because few people use that kind of art purely for entertainment and those who do aren't coming in contact with those kind of critiques anyway. if you've explored music on the internet much, you've no doubt come in contact with an irksome Music Fuck. a humor fuck is the only thing worse

man, it's like you really can't get your mind around someone understanding and still legitimately disliking tim and eric's work without being some ultra-critic who is fundamentally incapable of appreciating anything. i don't know how you can suggest i'm a HUMOR FUCK for not liking staggeringly unintelligent comedians who have absolute zero acting and performance ability and are completely oblivious of when to stop strangling a joke that's been dead for years. it's not like there is a shortage of legitimate comedy out there. around when i got sick of tim and eric, i went looking for other comedy performers and stumbled onto peter cook, a fundamentally similar comedian with a universe more of depth, diversity, and ability. i fail to see how this is an AWFUL WAY TO LIVE, since abandoning tim and eric led me to seeking out a comedian who i found dramatically more rewarding.

man, it's like you really can't get your mind around someone understanding and still legitimately disliking tim and eric's work without being some ultra-critic who is fundamentally incapable of appreciating anything.

well uh no, that's not the case. it's kind of disappointing that's what you got out of all that. I haven't said anything about liking or disliking tim and eric, I've actually talked about everything besides that. you can think what you want and as I have said before I don't care about your opinion of them whatsoever. the problem I have is with what you are presenting as legitimate criticism of their humor:

i don't know how you can suggest i'm a HUMOR FUCK for not liking staggeringly unintelligent comedians who have absolute zero acting and performance ability and are completely oblivious of when to stop strangling a joke that's been dead for years. it's not like there is a shortage of legitimate comedy out there. around when i got sick of tim and eric, i went looking for other comedy performers and stumbled onto peter cook, a fundamentally similar comedian with a universe more of depth, diversity, and ability. i fail to see how this is an AWFUL WAY TO LIVE, since abandoning tim and eric led me to seeking out a comedian who i found dramatically more rewarding.

now that you're not talking about david you're no longer saying anything. a joke that's been dead? what joke? what do you know about humor getting old, how did you know when this joke turned sour? what makes them bad actors? I think they can be pretty good actors at times. and now they've gone from not very smart to staggeringly unintelligent. and it's not just this post, it's every post you made about them that isn't about their collaborators. this isn't criticism. these are personal complaints that don't mean anything to anyone but you. the only thing in this post you've said that serves any purpose other than to annoy is when you mentioned peter cook, who may very well be a much more successful comedian. I'll check him out. and in this next sentence I started to say something about how peter cook might also have his own shortcomings and to dwell on them when you enjoy his work so much would be a miserable thing to do, but I really see no reason to repeat points I've already made just because you've selectively chosen which parts of my post to isolate and dissect

the pusswhip banggang performance at FYF looks like it was really good

now that you're not talking about david you're no longer saying anything.

most of what i believe on the matter was covered in this post and this one and i don't really care enough about this conversation to go into detail outside of what i've already covered there. i'd need to start picking apart clips to show what i mean on some greater academic level, and there's no way i'm going to start wasting my time on that. i think i've allowed you to troll me enough on this topic.

ok, tho I didn't intentionally troll you and the things I wrote about are genuine concerns of mine

Monty Python has always been hit or miss for me and I think it has to do with the level of absurdity. 

Take this well-known scene for example:

It's like some kind of crazy performance art, and it's so abstract that I don't find any humor in it.  Watching some of these skits makes me question the true nature of humor and why some people find certain things funny, because it's all entirely subjective. 

Monty Python is the predecessor of monkey cheese. If you can't figure out why that isn't funny, it's because it's not. It's a caveman hitting himself in the face with a club saying 'monkey cheese' over and over.

I haven't watched Tim and Eric since season 1!! I really want to watch more of it because I enjoy it a lot and I'm not sure why I haven't. I don't know where the show has gone since season 1 outside of a few clips I've seen, but it's all seemed pretty okay to me. What Hundley said about the show being a tribute to these weird people is what I enjoyed about it. If it's developed into something more malicious then I can see where he's coming from. I really hope it hasn't!!!

I remember watching this clip with Drule a year or so ago and we were both upset with the way they treated David. I think the problem is that most of the guys they have on the show like David Liebe Hart and James Quall (not Richard Dunn, he knows what he's doing!!!! (I think they all know what they're doing but Richard Dunn is a character actor and the other dudes are Genuinely Weird Dudes)) are kind of socially incapable and invite this treatment. It's sort of like Maury Povich, where they'd parade all these people on the stage for everyone to judge or laugh at. I don't know if that's their intention, but looking at this clip again kind of makes me wonder.

I think it's possible to Be Tim And Eric and also Be Nice.

also eric wareheim is a hipster.

Monty Python has always been hit or miss for me and I think it has to do with the level of absurdity. 

Take this well-known scene for example:

It's like some kind of crazy performance art, and it's so abstract that I don't find any humor in it.  Watching some of these skits makes me question the true nature of humor and why some people find certain things funny, because it's all entirely subjective.

although this isn't what monty python was really ever like. this clip was from their last movie, which they shouldn't have made because they were admittedly out of monty python ideas at that point. the major bulk of their sketches are just kinda blatantly silly rather than being this deliberately dense performance art kind of thing. it was exceptionally rare that their humor was ever that abstract. it's usually very easy to identify how a python sketch could be funny, but whether or not it was is a different matter entirely.

Monty Python is the predecessor of monkey cheese. If you can't figure out why that isn't funny, it's because it's not. It's a caveman hitting himself in the face with a club saying 'monkey cheese' over and over.

i don't know if that's fair. monty python is also the predecessor of tim and eric and pretty much all humor of that nature. i don't really think it's a coincidence that the actual structure of tim and eric mimics python almost exactly. like tim and eric, python was extraordinarily heavy on parodying fake commercials, television programs, and public figures to an almost nauseating extent. even the quirky visual style is similar in nature, with tim and eric's being the garbled poorly edited public access mess, and python being terry gilliam's ridiculous take on turn of the century art(although gilliam's work is really far superior here). most python wasn't really that senselessly random either, and a lot of it did have an identifiable thought pattern behind it rather than just being overwhelmingly pointless stupidity.

at the time, monty python was pretty revolutionary. there really was no mainstream comedy that legitimately managed to push the boundaries of what comedy was. even if monty python doesn't hold up awful well, it really did open to door for other people to explore avenues of comedic expression, and that was their intention for the most part. the problem is that the style of monty python was ripped off of spike milligan and the goon show, and people falsly attribute the invention of that style of comedy to python, even though that isn't even vaguely true.

it's just unfortunate that nobody remembers spike milligan. comedy would be a lot more dull and conventional without his influence on others. as far as i've ever been able to tell, he was really where absurdist comedy was born. it's very likely we wouldn't have had the works of peter sellers either if it wasn't for how much he learned about comedy from spike milligan.

tim and eric haven't really done public access style stuff since season 2. that was mainly season 1, which also had the most stupid/immature humor

Monty Python is the predecessor of monkey cheese. If you can't figure out why that isn't funny, it's because it's not. It's a caveman hitting himself in the face with a club saying 'monkey cheese' over and over.

I haven't watched Tim and Eric since season 1!! I really want to watch more of it because I enjoy it a lot and I'm not sure why I haven't. I don't know where the show has gone since season 1 outside of a few clips I've seen, but it's all seemed pretty okay to me. What Hundley said about the show being a tribute to these weird people is what I enjoyed about it. If it's developed into something more malicious then I can see where he's coming from. I really hope it hasn't!!!

I'll upload some of the best eps for you if you want.

tim and eric haven't really done public access style stuff since season 2. that was mainly season 1, which also had the most stupid/immature humor

i think season 1 is the worst season of tim and eric and the only one i actually do think is dumb quite alot of the time. it's really been getting better as it's gone along. i mean, there are a few crappier episodes here and there but the curve has been upwards.