i never watched pulp fiction because it seemed like a horribly boring uninteresting movie.

I liked Pulp Fiction. And Kill Bill.

But for similar reasons as to why some people like the transformers movies.

As actiony as they are. It does not matter to me if they are ironically silly or just honestly dumb. I enjoyed them anyway.

Though yeah, I USUALLY prefer smarter films. but I don't begrudge Tarantino for his movies. I do kind of begrudge him for usually being a dickhead though.

Kill Bill isn't feminist, Uma Thurman's character is a male's view of what a strong woman should be (essentially a man with tits) and is nothing more than the cliche vengeance heroine.

While I'd say that her being a cliche vengeance heroine is accurate, I'm curious as to what a honestly feminist heroine would be like in your opinion. Would she not "kick ass"? What is a woman's view of what a strong woman would be? (since you aren't a woman, I suppose that might be a difficult thing to answer? Not sure, as I would not know the answer myself.) Do all women think that there is a universal "strong woman" that specifically does not fall into the violence and aggression you'd see in the typical male heroes?

In the context of a movie with fantasy elements I mean. Unless we are talking about strict, no-nonsense dramas.

Wait, wouldn't a strong female character being a normal person mean a strong male character would be a normal person as well? Normal Isn't very descriptive either. I mean, what are the typical TRAITS? You can't make a trope-less tale.

What is it then

I suppose the issue I have is that it seems like you are saying the idea of being a violent vengeful action hero are inherently male traits, and ones women shouldn't have in media. " Ones usually considered 'strong' in a sense. Where females have no typical traits for strength in media. (After some reflection, maybe this is true, if only because there haven't been enough 'strong women characters' to produce the cliche/tropes associated with them)

Of course you were just arguing against people outright saying Kill Bill was feminism (at this point, one could ask "what is feminism", making this a semantic discussion, like before with "art" in the what's on your mind), but if it not, technically you could argue that feminism isn't actually about equivalence between men and women. Since, putting both genders into the same roles (vengeance fueled action hero) could be at least a FORM of equality. If one maybe most feminists might not think is very important or appealing. Suppose I'm pointing the finger at the wrong people then when I say I have heard people cry foul of male characters that fit into this cliche, resenting that you never see a woman as such a character. Are these occasional individuals mislead on the topic of feminism as a whole?

Kill Bill is what it is though. A shallow, if enjoyable, action movie. I can understand decrying it for claims of feminism when in fact it doesn't have what you would describe as feminism.

Hopefully I don't produce any eye rolling, but I do think its necessary to ask what definition of feminism we are talking about here. I mean, looking up the actually definitions (according to dictionary.com):

noun
1.
the doctrine advocating social, political, and all other rights of women equal to those of men.
2.
( sometimes initial capital letter ) an organized movement for the attainment of such rights for women.
3.
feminine  character.

Admittedly, these definitions are very difficult to actually apply to entertainment, art, and media in general it seems to me. Other than the 'advocating social ... rights of women equal to those of men' element in the first definition. Or maybe the 3rd in the case of actual characteristics of femininity if that's what we are talking about. Uma Thurman could be said to have few to no 'typical' feminine characteristics other than actually being a woman in the first place. But is this inherently bad? To be a woman and have few to no typical feminine personality characteristics? Maybe its bad because it might SUGGEST to some people that a woman with typical feminine characteristics IS bad? Or maybe that men with feminine characteristics are bad?

I suppose just as bad would be an inverse of Uma Thurman, a male with no typical male traits? or would this be acceptable or good only because there is a lack of such characters?

Another question, is something that is "not feminism" misogynist? I'm guessing/hoping not?

Sorry for the long rambling post. I have a tendency to over-analyze.

Response to new posts that came up as I wrote this:
definition of 'strength' is definitely something that should be defined as well...

EDIT: Sinfest has been on a "fight the patriarchy" kick as of late, http://www.sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=4116



Figured some might want to read a bit of it.

EDIT2: fixed the first line of my post.