Downranking change is the worst change they've ever made

It's the best change ever. Stop being a cheap bastard and using rank 1 spells to save mana. That was never intended.

It's the best change ever. Stop being a cheap bastard and using rank 1 spells to save mana. That was never intended.

hey don't you play a warrior? yeah shut up

mages are the biggest users of down ranking, period. hey i just saw a rogue stealth, let me catch him with max rank blizzard for a fifth of my fucking mana bar.

not to mention rank one frostbolt is better for more than just mana conservation. and don't forget we also use rank 1 frost nova, cone of cold, dampen magic and arcane explosion.

hey don't you play a warrior? yeah shut up

mages are the biggest users of down ranking, period. hey i just saw a rogue stealth, let me catch him with max rank blizzard for a fifth of my fucking mana bar.

not to mention rank one frostbolt is better for more than just mana conservation. and don't forget we also use rank 1 frost nova, cone of cold, dampen magic and arcane explosion.

Yeah exactly. Those spells are also meant to deal damage, not some nifty free off-use rogue-spotters and slowers. And yes I do play a warrior so I know that nerfs suck and hurt but downranking change is so damn logical it's useless to QQ about it.

frostbolt isn't meant to slow?

oh ok

It's the best change ever. Stop being a cheap bastard and using rank 1 spells to save mana. That was never intended.

If it was never intended, why do they let you use all the rank spells that cost less mana than the higher rank, unlike say all the other classes that have their stuff replaced? If it wasn't originally intended at some point, they would have just had new ranks override the new ones. (tbh, they should have just done this with their current downranking changes)

IT WAS NEVER INTENDED FOR YOU TO USE THE GIVEN OPTION OF USING SPELLS THAT COST LITTLE TO NO MANA TO SAVE MANA.

Seriously, this statement makes no sense. It's been going on for 5 years now, I'm pretty sure it was intended and Blizzard is just doing it to because they are retarded about balance.

especially considering that mana is a much more finite thing than rage or energy, and that downranking is pretty essential to lasting through fights against the non-mana using classes.

no evil bob mana conservation is dumb and broken!!

also whats the point of HAVING spell ranks if they obviously don't want us to use them, just make every thing max rank only like warriors and rogues

rank 1 frostbolt - necessary to kite a warrior without using your whole mana bar leaving him on 50% thanks to second wind. Not just MAKES IT EASY, necessary.
rank 1 amp magic (in 3v3/5v5) - trash debuff, don't give a shit if it's gone
rank 1 blizzard if there's stealthers - necessary and downgrades skill requirements if it's taken away. top rank blizzard costs over a fifth of my mana bar
rank 1 AE if there's stealthers - likewise blizzard
rank 1 frost nova - frost nova is critting for over 1k on the beta, don't care about this
rank 1 cone of cold - I switch this out for full rank depending on opponents. Removing reduces our longevity by SHIT LOADS not to mention versatility
rank 1 polymorph - top rank costs 3 times the mana but I'm not exceptionally bothered


the worst ones are frostbolt, blizzard and arcane explosion, those fucking hurt man.


Also verne it'l be funny when your shaman cries about not being able to use rank 1 earthshock or your druid cries about not being able to protect his Innervate with rank 1 buffs. Or you paladin..... poor paladins...
I say that about shamans but blizzard have already said DON'T WORRY shamans, we'll give you a free replacement spell :-)))) mages haven't had the same guarantee that ALL of our destealth capability and a great deal of our longer-than-30-seconds kiting ablitiy is being stripped

I just don't see why they even need to fuck with downranking, considering it has been possible for so long already.

Also I really hope the Earth Shock replacement is not a shock and not on the shock cooldown.

Aww. Didn't Blizzard already tried something else to "stop" downranking in the past?

Anyways, they're pretty much revamping the whole mana/casting system anyway in WotLK and said that downranking change hurts something too bad they'd give that class a new spell to fill that gap.

And if you can't see anything silly in getting higher rank spells but still using lower ranks of the spell then I don't know what to tell you.

And if you can't see anything silly in getting higher rank spells but still using lower ranks of the spell then I don't know what to tell you.

So why did they let us keep the lower rank skills then, hmm?

And if you can't see anything silly in getting higher rank spells but still using lower ranks of the spell then I don't know what to tell you.

Each of them has a specific use and obvious drawbacks.

YES I can kite a warrior around without losing my whole mana bar with rank 1 frostbolt providing he's terrible at using line of sight but it's not going to kill him when it hits for 30 considering warriors don't play double DPS.

YES I can destealth a rogue at range or in melee with rank 1 AE or blizzard without losing my whole mana bar if I can predict where he is. Top rank blizzard is for AOE grinding melee only mobs. Without a lower rank with zero damage output I can't use this spell at all.

Anyways, they're pretty much revamping the whole mana/casting system anyway in WotLK and said that downranking change hurts something too bad they'd give that class a new spell to fill that gap

This is hardly reassuring considering they've only specifically told shamans they'll have a replacement and blizzard are great at FORGETTING things like FORGETTING to give ret paladins the defining pvp defense stat on their pvp gear for 6 months.

edit: and I don't really want my FOUR UNIQUE NEW SPELLS or whatever we get in the expansion being used up replacing shit I already have.

So why did they let us keep the lower rank skills then, hmm?

Because downranking wasn't supposed to happen. But it did and it was too late for major changes then.

Because downranking wasn't supposed to happen. But it did and it was too late for major changes then.

If it wasn't intended then initial class balance was without downranking. If this is the case they could have merged all lower ranks easily without detriment to anyone, it would have taken a developer like 20 minutes. They even made it so lower ranks are replaced by new ranks as you get them on your action bars, but you still keep the lower ranks.

They'd have to give us something really good to stand in place of rank 1 frostbolt not to mention the others so I wouldn't be too eager for it if I were you. A 1 to 1 replacement would be CHILL EFFECT ADDED ON ICELANCES CASTED WHILE STANDING STILL and nobody wants us spamming more icelances.

Because downranking wasn't supposed to happen. But it did and it was too late for major changes then.

I was asking you why they let us keep the lower ranks of the spells at the start of the game (WHEN IT BEGAN LIVE OKAY) instead of the higher ranks replacing the lower ones.

If downranking wasn't supposed to happen, then why did they make spellcasters different from the melee classes in this regard?

Because the lower rank spells were supposed to be used to conserve mana. There is no other fucking explanation you can come up with, because there is no other reason why Blizzard would make spellcasters (JUST THEM) the only ones with the ability to select multiple ranks. They all have multiple ranks because each rank uses a different amount of Mana, there is no GOOD REASON if Blizzard themselves didn't intend for people to use the lower rank spells to be used to conserve mana, that they wouldn't give spellcasters the same system as melee, just have the mana cost change. None.

They gave spellcasters that option for a reason.

Now they're removing it because they can't think of an elegant not-stupid idea that isn't pandering to the PvP community to stay and play and not go to WAR. This is about as inelegant as you can get. A Rank 1 spell costing more than the max version of the spell doesn't make sense at all, not just from a sort of lore stand point, but just from general basic thought process and design. I mean dude, it's like a normal pistol in real life costing more than a modified AK-47 or something. It doesn't happen because the pistol is cheaper, less effective, easier to control, less chance of being used the wrong way, less chance of being used for a nefarious purpose, etc. Pretty weird analogy I guess but you don't expect weaker stuff to cost more in anything because it doesn't make sense at all.

Now if you can give me a good reason why spellcasters were specifically allowed to be able to use multiple ranks of stuff from Day 1 (and beta....) yet Blizzard didn't want people downranking, then I'll be amazed.

EDIT:
Also merging all the spell ranks would take less than 15 minutes to do especially considering Blizzard stresses good programming etc. And also they do a major change like every few months (well not now, expansion time but generally), and merging all the spell ranks isn't a major change compared to half the crap they do.

The idea is of all ranks of spell to cost same amount of mana (lower ranks costing more is supposedly a bug) so people would actually use max rank spells as their PRIMARY CHOICE. Currently many people use lower ranks over max rank in most if not all situations which was not intended. Why give new ranks of spells if no one uses them?

Currently many people use lower ranks over max rank in most if not all situations which was not intended.

lol

mages had two spells where low rank would always be used. Frost nova and polymorph. Both got fixed in alpha, frost nova now does more damage to compensate and lots of mages are still annoyed about polymorph (I DON'T GIVE A SHIT). What do we get in return for the 3 downranks that fulfil such a different utility to their topranks that they are almost DIFFERENT SPELLS?

My prediction is nothing. Make a note of it, that is my prediction.

Verne, you are out of your element. You obviously have no concept of "logic" because what you say makes no sense and HL keeps asking you THE KEY QUESTION yet you somehow dodge it by saying something that doesn't make sense.

It's pretty fucking obvious TO EVERYONE why spell ranks worked the way they did (i mean when i first started playing the game, when i rolled a healer i saw that i got to keep lower ranks of heals, and i thought to myself "oh sweet thats smart now i can use lower ranks when i can without wasting hella mana on an overheal" and i JUST STARTED PLAYING THE GAME) so you are obviously confused.

I find using max rank spells primarily over lower rank spells more logical than using lower ranks spells primarily over max rank spells. Blizzard has stated multiple times in the past that spell downranking has never been intended to be as widespread and common as it currently. Previously (somewhere around Naxxramas/TBC beta I think) Blizzard made lower rank spells scale worse to make max rank spells more desireable, however since they did this new change that wasn't enough clearly. Plus they said if a healer needed a smaller healing spell for some situations they would give them one, but who knows will they keep their promises.