News Israel bombs Gaza, kills 170 (Read 10359 times)

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Islam is just christianity with an extra prophet, just like xtianity is jeudaism(and this is according to most muslim scholars!). Any percieved massive gap in morals is total bullshit propaganda that you've baught into. They just see Muhammed as like the final prophet with the completed story.

I think that's a massive understatement, while it is true that muslims recognize the abrahamic prophetary traditions and their characters, Islam, Christianity and Judaism has an extensive amount of difference in both doctrine and tradition. Islam is the only one of the abrahamic religions that doesn't operate with anthropomorphism in it's religious texts, the trinity is also a completely abstract phenomenon within islam, it doesn't exist in islam, to muslims, believing that Jesus was the son of God is blasphemy.
Not only in their view of God but also in everyday things such as marital laws, sex was always viewed as an important part of marriage within islamic tradition, it was told to be practiced often in a marriage so that it would create connection between the partners, whereas in christian tradition sex was viewed as something perverse that shouldnt be performed for any other reason than for children. Moral traditions do differ in Sunnah and Shari'ah largely from the christian traditions, saying that it's total bullshit is a vast understatement.
Last Edit: January 05, 2009, 01:57:46 am by Soulmman
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Painting the world in black and white is amazingly easy, searching for the clear victims and those who should be hanged.
Referring only your preferred side of the story and using rhetorics along the way to make a strong point. This is how the media does it, and this is how we're being fed information, I get my "side". Overseas prefer the "other".
Truth is, shit is much more complicated than what people would like to believe, whether you're a left wing radical in or out of Israel calling for a swift agreement, or a right wing extremist with a big gun with the will to shutter life on either side.
Both sides are not free fault, far from it. We were all born in a quicksand trap, the size of our societies make decision taking, and complex thought a dangerous solution. Everybody wants it quick, you try to make a real progress, you try to achieve balance - you'd likely to get shot in the back or exiled until the day your die.

So, we'll let Rorschachs call our shots, Hamas over there, dangerous "patroitism" over here, there is no gray, let their blood spill.

I hate this war, I highly doubt it had nothing to do with the upcoming election, that up until a week ago, next to none cared about.
I hate waking up to the sounds of sirens, I hate watching the news, where they trying to sell me emphatic stories to prove that "we" are right.
I hate the sudden mass awakening of the extremist crowd calling for violence and death for all.
I hate the fact that I need to think twice before rising my head in the global communities, I wish I was Sweden, maybe I'd allow myself the privilege to pick a side and go for it.

But I can't, I'm aware and I know that shit sucks and shit is complex and that fixing it is not as easy, so to speak, as rooting for genocide.
This world is far too big for just two colours, for baddies and goodies.

I'm not sure how that came out, so flame at will.
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Islam is just christianity with an extra prophet, just like xtianity is jeudaism(and this is according to most muslim scholars!). Any percieved massive gap in morals is total bullshit propaganda that you've baught into. They just see Muhammed as like the final prophet with the completed story.

this is pretty wrong.
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Painting the world in black and white is amazingly easy, searching for the clear victims and those who should be hanged.
Referring only your preferred side of the story and using rhetorics along the way to make a strong point. This is how the media does it, and this is how we're being fed information, I get my "side". Overseas prefer the "other".
Truth is, shit is much more complicated than what people would like to believe, whether you're a left wing radical in or out of Israel calling for a swift agreement, or a right wing extremist with a big gun with the will to shutter life on either side.
Both sides are not free fault, far from it. We were all born in a quicksand trap, the size of our societies make decision taking, and complex thought a dangerous solution. Everybody wants it quick, you try to make a real progress, you try to achieve balance - you'd likely to get shot in the back or exiled until the day your die.

So, we'll let Rorschachs call our shots, Hamas over there, dangerous "patroitism" over here, there is no gray, let their blood spill.

I hate this war, I highly doubt it had nothing to do with the upcoming election, that up until a week ago, next to none cared about.
I hate waking up to the sounds of sirens, I hate watching the news, where they trying to sell me emphatic stories to prove that "we" are right.
I hate the sudden mass awakening of the extremist crowd calling for violence and death for all.
I hate the fact that I need to think twice before rising my head in the global communities, I wish I was Sweden, maybe I'd allow myself the privilege to pick a side and go for it.

But I can't, I'm aware and I know that shit sucks and shit is complex and that fixing it is not as easy, so to speak, as rooting for genocide.
This world is far too big for just two colours, for baddies and goodies.

I'm not sure how that came out, so flame at will.

It's really not that complicated really. Israel is an imperialist aggressor imposing apartheid on the palestinian people. One side is wrong and the other is right and it is in fact very black and white.
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Islam is just christianity with an extra prophet, just like xtianity is jeudaism(and this is according to most muslim scholars!). Any percieved massive gap in morals is total bullshit propaganda that you've baught into. They just see Muhammed as like the final prophet with the completed story.

A statement such as this shows your total lack of knowledge in Islamic Fiqh, Qu'ranic Tafseers and the context of Sahih Ahadeeth. Talk to credible scholars such as Shaykh Abdullah Bin Bayyah, Imam Zaid Shakir or Shaykh Hamzah Yusuf and they'll completely tear you apart with a bullshit statement such as that. I didn't buy into no 'propaganda bullshit'. I have lived both lives. The life of a Christian and the life of a Muslim. As a person who has had first hand experience in living both lives, I can clearly see the vast amount of differences in the two religions. What Soulmann said was one of the major examples with the whole trinity aspect. There are various other major differences that will take too long to explain here.

Furthermore, we have done this to death in the past already that went onto pages. For both of our sakes, lets just end it here because that discussion went nowhere except cause both of us major headaches - It was like talking to a brick wall. Completely futile and a waste of time.

The other thing is that not only are innocent Palestinian civilians being killed but also innocent Palestinian Christians and Jews so this is hardly a 'Judaism vs Islam' thing, far from it. At least 40% of the Palestinians that were killed in this bullshit occupation of Palestine are women and children and the majority overall were innocent civilians - Innocent Jews, Christians and Muslims were all killed.

In one of my last 2 posts, I posted how many Jews are against the illegal occupation of Palestine and the fact that there is actually a huge campaign running of 'Orthodox Jews united against zionism' (The website is here: http://www.nkusa.org/), and the fact that many, many rabbis condemn the Israeli government for its war crimes against humanity, the state terrorism that it is perpetuating and its eventual quest towards genocide.

So on that note, we all must stand united against this illegal occupation of Palestine - whether you're an atheist, Muslims, Jew, Christian, Buddhist, etc.
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It's really not that complicated really. Israel is an imperialist aggressor imposing apartheid on the palestinian people. One side is wrong and the other is right and it is in fact very black and white.

hahahah.
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hahahah.

present me with anything that makes my argument invalid
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well i would say that blasting rockets in to israel (however ineffective that may be) isn't really a a RIGHT thing either
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well if your scale of right/wrong involves any sense of balance, truth is correct murdering hundreds in revenge for one and invading a country is kind of bullshit by every metric I know.

i mean hes a big ole dummy "YOU ARE A MONSTER" etc but he's right about this, Israel is pretty clearly the fuckos.
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are you talkin to me?? i agree with him :(
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Talk to credible scholars such as Shaykh Abdullah Bin Bayyah, Imam Zaid Shakir or Shaykh Hamzah Yusuf and they'll completely tear you apart with a bullshit statement such as that
more probably with a suicide bomb judging by THOSE names ¬¬
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oh mark  :fogetlaugh:
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One side is wrong and the other is right and it is in fact very black and white.

Well, the fact some Palestinians don't agree with the way the Hamas is running thing may just place a shade of grey on the whole conflict. I mean, I doubt that those Palestinians are undercover Jews.
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well i would say that blasting rockets in to israel (however ineffective that may be) isn't really a a RIGHT thing either

How would you suggest they fight back against an imperialist aggressor who is starving them and committing apartheid?

Quote
Well, the fact some Palestinians don't agree with the way the Hamas is running thing may just place a shade of grey on the whole conflict. I mean, I doubt that those Palestinians are undercover Jews.

fatah is in the pocket of the idf completely. Fatah undermines Hamas so they can rule over whatever blasted chunk of Gaza is left.
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Wasn't the original hamas intention to kill innocents? they broke the ceasefire and fired all those rockets with the intention to kill hundreds of people. it just didn't happen.

Israel responded accordingly with full force.
Last Edit: January 06, 2009, 07:28:02 am by Afura
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dont hamas purposely set up their hideouts within civilian areas?
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Wasn't the original hamas intention to kill innocents? they broke the ceasefire and fired all those rockets with the intention to kill hundreds of people. it just didn't happen.

Israel responded accordingly with full force.

Israel broke the ceasefire when they kidnapped and shot hamas politicians/security forces (or as the brown people versions are known... gunmen and radicals).

Israel has also broke the ceasefire by not allowing food, medical supplies, or power into gaza effectively sieging these people inside a dead city with very little function. What do you want a people to do when they are walled in ghettos and not allowed basic human rights?

And lolin over here at "accordingly" NO ISRAELIS KILLED.... BETTER GO IN AND CLUSTER BOMB GAZA

Quote
dont hamas purposely set up their hideouts within civilian areas?

there's literally no way this is a serious question.

Have you ever seen Gaza? It's one of the most densely packed urban areas IN THE WORLD. Where are they supposed to put their hideouts (which actually were police stations and a fucking university... GREAT TERRORIST HIDEOUTS)? Would you prefer they magically floated them into the air with big "hamas hideout" flags on them? Do you have any understanding of the situation at all?
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Firstly both of the peoples involved are brown to a certain extent, so yah irrelevant call there

Haha don't try to flame me with your best Steel imitation Truth, I was simply asking questions as I don't fully understand everything about the situation. I'm admitting that and attempting to further understand what happened, there is nothing wrong with that.

I understand that it is absolutely inhumane the way the people of Gaza are being treated but at the same time I would probably protect my country in the same way if someone broke a cease fire so I understand their retaliation and a little of both sides perspectives Gaza and Israel. I think I was there during some of the missile attacks and it is pretty scary, Israel is on constant defense and surrounded by these countries which hate them so I guess that is why they used to situation to attack Hamas. < Bad I know.

And yes I have been through Gaza in real life actually, but surely even Gaza has areas which aren't completely urban, I went through some pretty unpopulated streets from memory. I caught a taxi through a small part of it one time if you guys are wondering.
Last Edit: January 06, 2009, 08:49:59 am by Afura
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Firstly both of the peoples involved are brown to a certain extent, so yah irrelevant call there

Haha don't try to flame me with your best Steel imitation Truth, I was simply asking questions as I don't fully understand everything about the situation. I'm admitting that and attempting to further understand what happened, there is nothing wrong with that.

I understand that it is absolutely inhumane the way the people of Gaza are being treated but at the same time I would probably protect my country in the same way if someone broke a cease fire so I understand their retaliation and a little of both sides perspectives Gaza and Israel. I think I was there during some of the missile attacks and it is pretty scary, Israel is on constant defense and surrounded by these countries which hate them so I guess that is why they used to situation to attack Hamas.

And yes I have been through Gaza in real life actually, but surely even Gaza has areas which aren't completely urban, I went through some pretty unpopulated streets from memory.


ISRAEL
BROKE
THE
CEASE
FIRE
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thanks for your intelligent reply try responding to the whole post former racist right wing conservative pro-bush poster

I just remembered I watched this really good documentary which accurately portrayed both an Arab family and an Israeli family and their feelings toward Israel, it was really interesting but I can't remember the name dammit. It followed this Arab family around who were allowed through the border for the documentary or something and they went to their original family property, the great grandmother started crying it was intense.
Last Edit: January 06, 2009, 09:13:32 am by Afura
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