I'm not trolling dumbass do your research

what the hell stop arguing whether the palestinians would do the same thing. here's some other hypothetical situations:

-if criminals were bulletproof, would we see an increase of taser deaths?
-if spirulina gave you cancer, what chemotherapy would we use?
-if a man was a dog, would he play our chess?

seriously who gives a fuck if palestine would do the same? how is this a justification? do you harm everyone who wishes you harm? do you think it's justified in any way?

OH NO PALESTINIANS ARE BAD no fucking shit but who cares 25% WOMEN AND CHILDREN you idiots! that's not even innocents. that's just women and children. who cares if they'd do the same? can you not say "FUCK ISRAEL" without needing to include a bullshit justification so you don't feel bad?

I expect better from everyone here, honestly. what a fucking boring derail of political philosophy. "heh both sides are bad" yeah okay welcome to poli sci 101 now realize one side is RIGHT NOW killing the other and a lot of innocent people are dying and stop trying to make this some point of vacillation because guess what you're both arguing really fucking stupid hypotheticals. if palestine had the money and the us support and the religion of israel they'd be just like israel CONGRATULATIONS!

i took poli sci 371 and i got a 4.0 so fuck u.

i think its a very important idea to understand the class character of the people who are leading the war in both sides  furthermore it is very important to understand that a country is not an entity but it is divided into different classes with conflicting interests. its not about hypotheticals. i seriously think palestinains should withdraw from hamas and instead start a mutiny/dessertion/hide etc. do you honestly think more palestinains die if normal folk hid in their basements? the only people winning in this offenses are hamas politicians and bosses and israeli ones, nobody else.

you're arguing a different perspective from other people in this thread though, namely, to quote Sartre *puffs pipe* "when the rich wage war, it's the poor who die". I think no one will argue that this is a conflict of elites no matter what (well some people want but they aren't

GOOD

SOCIALIST

FRIENDS)

but do you think we can't even compare the goals of these elites? sure if Hamas "wins" it's no better but look at what's HAPPENING, you know? people are dying. I do not care about if Hamas was in charge or if Israel was weaker blah blah the point is Israel is killing a lot of fucking people! innocent people! that is disgusting.

maybe it's just a general jaded attitude towards international politics (I read Ayn Rand every morning then I jack off into my own mouth) but if we're going to discuss war I'm not sure it behooves anyone to adopt an attitude of "whoever wins, we lose", regardless of how admittedly true it is, when innocent people are dying now, as we type on our forums! I suppose the real point is it won't ever end, and I don't think it will either without what you said occuring, but as long as I am helpless on the sidelines, I'd prefer to condemn the murderers of the moment instead of those that might be.

funfact: learned that sartre quote when i heard it in a linkin park song, thought it was way too clever for them, was correct.

the israeli army is conscripted

also israel wants to control all of palestine iirc so any excuse to wipe out infrastructure and palestinians

like how else do you take over a country?

i took poli sci 371 and i got a 4.0 so fuck u.

i think its a very important idea to understand the class character of the people who are leading the war in both sides  furthermore it is very important to understand that a country is not an entity but it is divided into different classes with conflicting interests. its not about hypotheticals. i seriously think palestinains should withdraw from hamas and instead start a mutiny/dessertion/hide etc. do you honestly think more palestinains die if normal folk hid in their basements? the only people winning in this offenses are hamas politicians and bosses and israeli ones, nobody else.

I primarily disagree and see Hamas as more of a Vanguard party. In fact Hamas spends 90 percent of their money on social programs, schools, hospitals, churches etc.

Looking at this in the vein of a class conflict I think is accurate but it is largely a state vs state class conflict in the microcosm. You have to first look at this as a fight against imperialism. I think you'll find that Hamas actually reflects the views of the elites much less than say... fatah or the plo did. Also you keep talking about running away, where do you suggest gazans run to? Nowhere is safe in Gaza and there is no way out.

Looking at this in the vein of a class conflict I think is accurate but it is largely a state vs state class conflict in the microcosm. You have to first look at this as a fight against imperialism.

Looking at it from this perspective ignores the reality that Israeli settlers are now in their third or fourth generation; to boot somebody out of the country they and their father were born in seems questionable regardless of the historic circumstances.

I don't see you ceding your land to the local Native American tribes and heading back to Europe.

Looking at it from this perspective ignores the reality that Israeli settlers are now in their third or fourth generation; to boot somebody out of the country they and their father were born in seems questionable regardless of the historic circumstances.

I don't see you ceding your land to the local Native American tribes and heading back to Europe.

The United States should absolutely cede land to native american tribes.

Israeli settlers are not in their third or fourth generation lol how do you even come up with this? The two major border changes were in 1947 and in the sixties, and the land the settlers are stealing now is a very recent thing.

"Three or four generations" try one.

The British have been in Northern Ireland for over two centuries and should also absolutely get the fuck out.

The British have been in Northern Ireland for over two centuries and should also absolutely get the fuck out.

Haplogroup B has been subjugating Haplogroup A to its imperialism for over 50,000 years! Pygmies out of Africa.

I'm pretty sure this topic has lost its usefullness now... intteligent discussion faded out about 2 pages ago.

Oh and also I would like to add a blog by one of my friends from Israel.

Really It deals with the shit going on in Israel with Gaza. I need to vent.

1. THERE NEVER WAS A NATION OF PALESTINE!!!!! Hate to tell y’all but it’s true. There was the Bristish Mandate of Palestine but it was not a nation. Most north African and middle eastern countries came to be after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire in 1922 after WWI. So the land was never STOLEN from the Palestinian. The mandate was to be reserved for the Jews though 80% of the mandate was given directly to the Arabs that is now Jordan the of the remaining 20% was split to form Israel and Palestine. Well… Jews accepted their share the Arabs did not. So do not bitch about stolen land. The Arabs didn’t want it so the Jews were happy to that the Arabs rejected land. Why cannot the Arabs be happy with 90% of the land belonging to the Jews? Greed? Hate of Jews? In 1948 it was swamps and desert any value to the land was added by the Israelis.
2. For close to 4000 years Jews have lived in Modern Israel. This even through times of exile that they have remained. The Muslims haven’t even existed half of that time, so if you are making it a who lived there first/longest or whatever else claim just don’t because the facts are not with you.
3. As soon as Israel was created it was attacked. Israel had done nothing but exist. Where is the reason for that? It was not self defense, it was malice and hatred. How can you attack Israel’s reasons for entering a war without even questioning the motives for Hamas, Hezballah. Both of whom are funded by other Arab nations, Syria and Iran namely.
4. Humanitarianism: Israel’s committing “war-crimes”? Really? Really, people? Israel has forfeited the element of surprise in efforts to save as many civilians as possible by dropping leaflets and sending messages notifying residents of an impending attack. What other army would do that? Does Hamas send notes to Sderot or Ashdod or Ashqelon or Be’ersheva before launching a rocket? The answer is no.
5. Yes the Gazans have lost their homes. 10,000 Israeli’s were forced to leave Gaza in 2005 because Palestinians said that it was the presence of Israelis in the territories that was the cause of the attacks. When Israel pulled out did the attacks stop? No. Hamas rose to power, killing Gazans who did not agree with them. Yet the media would have you believe that only the Israelis are killing Palestinians are bad.
6. Palestinians as refugees. Yes they are refugees but who exactly told them to leave their homes? Arab governments were encouraging the people of the region to flee their homes and then did not let them into the Arab nations. Leaving the Palestinians without homes and forcing them to be left in a blockade political and theological. This was said the Mohammed Abbas the Palestinian President. By not allowing the people to absorb into the other Arab nations, the nations had the perfect weapon. People, the use the people of Palestine to fight proxy wars on Israel with no damage to their land or people. Clever huh? Arab nations expelled the Jews from their land but why don’t we hear about them? Because Israel took them in with open arms
7. It is written in Hama’s charter that their aim in the destruction of Israel.
8. Americans who feel that we need to support Palestine and not Israel, I would like for you to recall 9/11. In Palestine people were dancing, celebrating, cheering that THOUSANDS of American lives had been lost. Need a refresher? Here ya go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMOZvbYJMvU&feature=related
9. The biggest thing that I can see is that Israelis have done wrong is that not enough of them have died by rocket fire. Which really isn’t a bad thing. ALL LIFE MUST BE SHOULD BE TREASURED. The only time I feel it is acceptable to take a life is when it saves others. No other reason.

As I said... there is not reason to continue this discussion because of people like flashstar who want to make things into something dramatic rather than argue intelligently. I suggest this topic be killed... I wish I had the power to do it myself.

As I said... there is not reason to continue this discussion because of people like flashstar who want to make things into something dramatic rather than argue intelligently. I suggest this topic be killed... I wish I had the power to do it myself.

The way to fight thought-terminating cliches is not to cease discussion, but to ask questions.

Don't be discouraged by someone who has a freaking Dragonball Z avatar!