News Israel bombs Gaza, kills 170 (Read 10359 times)

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like marmot said, the only difference between them and israel is they don't have the capability to kill as many jews as israel does brownies
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Hehe, I did not read the whole topic for obvious reasons. My thoughts on the matter? I think what's going on is a travesty. Palestians were wrong for launching missles for sure, I agree 100%, but there was supposed to be some form of truce. Since June, the sanctions and road blocks were litterally killing Palestinians in Gaza and nothing was being done. It's the classic story of the oppressed and their radical actions out of desperateness. Are they right? Hell no, but why don't you put yourselves in their shoes. I am not siding with anyone and I am trying to give my opinion without being bias so please save your quirky remarks.

Fun fact, the missles launched at Israelis were completely shit. Since this whole situation started, I am at a count of like 4 Israelis civilian dead and more soldiers injured. This does not compare at all at the attacks that were made upon the Palestinians. Use your fucking brain Israel. Missle attacks at empty schools? Compared to 500+ civilians with 20% of those children. Honestly, the media has a way of flipping the victims with the criminals. We've seen this time and time again. By the way, I am not calling Israeli criminals although I am very well close to. I really only care about the victims, save the politics until after please.

Right now, negotiations are trying to be made to end this but since Hamas is labelled a terrorist group, no matter if they were democratically elected, there will be no dealings with them. Egypt and a few other muslim countries are also closing their borders and placing sanctions on the Palestinians. What does this mean? You can expect more deaths. The only thing different this time around is that almost everyone wants this to end asap. Egypt government is really going to take some backlash for siding with the Israelis in this massacre and since the leader is already hated by many people, I will not be surprised if something actually happens there.

As is, a lot of the Arab countries want Hamas gone. Of course the Israelis feel the same way. This situation will cause more harm and the Israelis will not be pampered if they continue this I guarantee you this. If I were some of the Arab leaders I would threaten to pull money right out of the U.S Economy instead of placing sanctions on dying people. The U.S would have to oblige as they can not afford that to happen at all cost.

Just my two cents.
Last Edit: January 08, 2009, 01:43:02 am by The Ghost
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yeah, and the macho political posturing o a lot of anti-zionists is silly and childish. the whole "heh die on your feet not on your knees" is silly and made by people who are politically bankrupt. i think people who really care about palestinain folk would encourage dessertion/mutiny rather than dying for reactionaries like Hamas. certainly, if i where there i would hide or try to get away, not cheer at sugarrockets.

And where are you going to run and hide to when you're walled in? You have some sort of strage defeatist attitude that in the past has placed the palestinian people in exactly this situation. There's nowhere in Gaza to run and hide, the corrupt Israeli and American supporting Egyptian government walls them in and shoots them on one side and the israelis wall them in and shoot them on another. Hamas has taken the only action they have left.
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Rev, there is also a loud part who highly support of the attack, though, granted, violent and mostly stupid. Criticizing and action against your government is allowed in a free (as of yet) country.
The anti Zionist Jews are a fairly small group and could hardly represent the entire Jewish Community.

Ghost: Hamas doesn't acknowledge Israel's existence, thus making negotiation a difficult, almost fruitless process
In the end it comes down to whether one believes that the two nations can live peacefully and freely, or that one side should pack his things and get the fuck out. 
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Well that's obviously different. Your entire thing about LEVELS OF TERRORISM is absurd. State terrorism is worse than "3rd party terrorism?" Really? Most 3rd party terrorists organizations receive funding from a state, so how are they any different than if the state itself was actually doing it?

The whole thing of saying WELL BOTH HAMAS AND ISRAEL COMMIT TERROR.. BUT ISRAELS IS SOMEHOW FUNDAMENTALLY WORSE is silly and it's just you blindly supporting Hamas because they're political Islam.

Hamas is representative of an opressed starving people and the IDF is representative of a wealthy state that has stolen those people's land and is committing apartheid. One side is fighting for its survival and one is fighting to subjugate the other. There's a huge difference.
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Abelone:

Well do you blame them? The truce was essentially pointless and now they are trapped rats. All the wordplay is not helping them and the world is basically against them. They are left with very few options, they chose to fight. I pose one question, what happens if Hamas just gives up completely? Obviously they still can not negotiate because of their status. Do you honestly think that the Palestinians will be treated fairly afterwards? We saw how that went last time. My point is that both groups are stubborn as shit BUT Isreal, as the big dog with so much support should seek to resolve this. What they are doing is entirely counter productive. If the Palestinians had been living a better life after the truce they probably would be less inclined to what they have done.

I just feel sad that there will be more victims because of such stupidity. An arbitrator maybe? Some one from the outside needs to resolve this.

P.S:

I kind of resent what you said to Rev Ryan. How exactly is he blindly supporting Hamas? Try not to sound so hot headed and ask him directly. I think he was just trying to make a point.
Last Edit: January 08, 2009, 01:37:54 am by The Ghost
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Hamas is representative of an opressed starving people and the IDF is representative of a wealthy state that has stolen those people's land and is committing apartheid. One side is fighting for its survival and one is fighting to subjugate the other. There's a huge difference.

nope, bombing civilians is still bombing civilians.
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Ryan what is wrong with you man?  No one is arguing that what they are doing is right. But just like you did with Rev, I can say your fucking blindly supporting the Israeli.
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yes...down with all arab. semper judaism.
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Sorry I asked man, I am just trying to keep this shit from being black and white. Can't we have an intelligent debate about this without breaking down and labelling people shit?

I should stay out these type of topics. No politics and religion at work... That shit should apply here.
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Ryan what is wrong with you man?  No one is arguing that what they are doing is right. But just like you did with Rev, I can say your fucking blindly supporting the Israeli.

you're really dumb.

basically what i'm saying is both the israelis and the palestinians governments are two sides of the same coin. both are trying to politicize their respective religions and fighting for the right to oppress the others poor and disenfranchised. rather than support either of these governments the poor and regular people of the area should do what marmot said: desert or rebel. nothing will change regardless of who is in power in the region. it's a silly religious based conflict that's been occurring throughout history.

israel is obviously winning, mainly because the USA is flooding them with supplies. doesn't change the fact that the Palestinian govt is basically fighting to have the position and control Israel has now.
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Yeah, I am dumb, like I didn't know that those were the options. How realistic is it for one side to leave though? You should grow the fuck up and stop talking so much shit. Exactly when did I call you dumb? I really hate arguing with people like you who mix some facts, sarcasm, and name calling in a pot and just keeps stirring shit up.
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what the hell stop arguing whether the palestinians would do the same thing. here's some other hypothetical situations:

-if criminals were bulletproof, would we see an increase of taser deaths?
-if spirulina gave you cancer, what chemotherapy would we use?
-if a man was a dog, would he play our chess?

seriously who gives a fuck if palestine would do the same? how is this a justification? do you harm everyone who wishes you harm? do you think it's justified in any way?

OH NO PALESTINIANS ARE BAD no fucking shit but who cares 25% WOMEN AND CHILDREN you idiots! that's not even innocents. that's just women and children. who cares if they'd do the same? can you not say "FUCK ISRAEL" without needing to include a bullshit justification so you don't feel bad?

I expect better from everyone here, honestly. what a fucking boring derail of political philosophy. "heh both sides are bad" yeah okay welcome to poli sci 101 now realize one side is RIGHT NOW killing the other and a lot of innocent people are dying and stop trying to make this some point of vacillation because guess what you're both arguing really fucking stupid hypotheticals. if palestine had the money and the us support and the religion of israel they'd be just like israel CONGRATULATIONS!
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i agree that what israel doing is really horrible. i'm just saying these guys coming in here going SEMPER PALESTINE is stupid because given the chance they would be doing the same shit. it's not an excuse for israel or anything.
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but you're removing all sense of context. as truth pointed out Israel has basically been UNFAIR for almost all of its existence in every way. sure Palestinians would do the same thing. but how much of that is fueled by this basic conflict, and how much is fueled by US pressure, anti-Islamic shit, blah blah? I don't blame people for rooting on Palestine, they aren't the aggressors here, and if your best argument is THEY COULD BE then what the hell man IF PANTS HAD THREE HOLES WHERE WOULD THE THIRD BE???
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i mean hamas really, not palestine as a whole.
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it's not even in the context of THEY COULD BE. they kind of ARE. hamas are a shitty theocratic government that actively suppress dissidents and deny the holocaust. they also have no problem blowing up buses full of children.
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Israel warns civilians in gaza before striking

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,24855309-401,00.html
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I'll not TAKE ANYTHING you write like this seriously because it looks dumb
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be honest with you; I just kind of want to keep writing dumb hypotheticals.

IF BABIES COULD SWIM, WHAT WOULD WE POWER SAILBOATS WITH?

it's not even in the context of THEY COULD BE. they kind of ARE. hamas are a shitty theocratic government that actively suppress dissidents and deny the holocaust. they also have no problem blowing up buses full of children.

would they do this if Israel didn't exist? we don't know! these kind of hypotheticals are kind of not worth pursuing because you'll end up debating with truth on some conflict in 1972 while a sugar rocket blows up an Israeli hospital.
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quit trolling inri or you'll be banned again.
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