i can tell you put a lot of thought into that ghost. Look, my main issue is that azn was complaining about not getting any CC. I gave him some legitamite points, and he chose to ignore them. Then he says he likes starting fights on rmn, man if you're not gonna listen than don't post your little custom screens around here. Go post them on rmn where "custom" tiles get infin praise just for being "custom." Until then I'll just ride around on my graphical high horse and shut ppl down.

No, actually, you did not give me any legitimate points. And I did not ignore them, I responded to what you said in depth, did some research, looked up some examples, and posted them. You said that the graphical style was an excuse to make quick custom graphics and that you are getting tired of seeing it. How is that a legitimate criticism? Especially when I explained how it is not at all a reason to make quick custom graphics, and "i'm tired of graphical style _____" isn't really a criticism.

Also what I said to Kaempfer is irrelevant to what you were saying really. And I never said anything about starting fights, I said arguments. Would you call writing persuasive essays "starting fights?" Although it's rather that I thought his joke was dumb and I wanted to call him out on it.

EDIT: Also, Gongo, I honestly can't tell what the title of your game is, even after staring at it for a little while. At first I thought it was The Chronicles of Asgard... but then I saw it wasn't. Now I think it might be The Asgard Conicles Amber. Or maybe The Conicles Asgard Amber?

I understand King of Spook's argument here, azn, and I will clarify for you since I am sure you are not going to take it well:

There is nothing wrong with the style, per se, but if you are using a style that by it's very definition is that simple then you have to strive to make it stand out. As of right now, most of it is interchangeable with Mother 3 chips. Like I said, that's not a BAD thing (it's pretty impressive, actually), but it does sort of defeat the point of making completely custom graphics if it is totally unrelated to Mother 3. If you took what you have and went out of your way (or Lennon did) to give it some personality of its own past Mother 3, it'd be a really impressive treat.

You brought up FF6 graphics; if I made graphics from scratch that looked pretty much identical to FF6 chips (with only a few pixels being different), then wouldn't that be just as bad? People do this all time with edits, and its fine, but if you are going to go the extra mile and go all custom, go custom and really develop a vibe of your own.

The menu doesn't look very good, though. I know you said it looks better in game, but how is that possible? It's a static menu, no? Then it will look exactly like it does in screen shots. It has some of that critical element not present elsewhere in the presentation and takes on a life of its own past Earthbound-style, but it's just too loud. There's too much going on. Strip some of it away but leave the core idea and you'll have a good menu.

edit: If you want some examples of interesting simple styles, look at andyw's game trailer thing. There are like a bajillion completely different styles in there, and they're all really simple (you know, before the crazy pixel shaders or whatever is going on). There is a difference between being reminiscent of a style and being exactly the same though, you follow?

Hold on, I gottA TEXT These guys the latest chips.

why bother with custom graphics? why not just use the mother 3 tiles, they are similar enough  when you strip down graphics to its bare minimum, and HEAVILY rely on the style of another game, that is very easy to reproduce, why bother? I realize that a lot of games use the same snes games, rudra, ct, ff6, etc. but the idea is to mix them up into something new. When you're graphics look exactly like just one game, it might as well be a fangame. it's less "original" even though yes custom from scratch everybody!!

Hi, I don't like ripping graphics. The graphics I use are simple and functional. I don't care for mixing a whole lot of chipset together and making my maps a convoluted clusterfuck that's hard to navigate. And seriously, unoriginal? Compared to like, SUPER EPIC RPG, are you really calling my game unoriginal? Hat powers? Awesomeometer? A black main character? Other than graphical simplicity, and perhaps quirkiness, there is almost no relation to the Mother series at all.

If you look at Liberty's reinention of the RTP, or Doppleganger's Eckle and Toast (i made this point before but you didn't understand) then you can see how "simple" graphics can be used in a more interesting way. alhtough admittedly, rtp is pretty played out these days as well. Man you want simple, study some gb graphics, they only had 4 colors and heaps more flavor/originality.

Yes, you said it earlier, but I said that I don't see how exactly you classify those into "simple" graphics. GB graphics? How is that relevant at all? Not that I have anything against them, but it is pretty apparent I am not going for a GB vibe.

book comment-oh it looks magically better in game
lack of battle bg-oh its a placeholder but i want praise for it anyways. (dont post unfinished screens)

yes your graphics are boring get over it

No, it doesn't look magically better in game. I didn't say that. I said at a larger resolution that it looks fine and it doesn't feel so cluttered. It's the same concept as the lighting effects looking super dark on forum posts. And yes, people have agreed, which is where I got my point from: link
And you asked why it was a green gradient. I never said I wanted praise for my graphics, and "don't post unfinished screens" is a dumb thing to say because there's no rule against it, and the background isn't the focus of that screenshot either.

edit: hang on kaempfer you post too fast for me since i was researching some stuff too although this post addresses a bunch of what you said although writing more

There is nothing wrong with the style, per se, but if you are using a style that by it's very definition is that simple then you have to strive to make it stand out. As of right now, most of it is interchangeable with Mother 3 chips. Like I said, that's not a BAD thing (it's pretty impressive, actually), but it does sort of defeat the point of making completely custom graphics if it is totally unrelated to Mother 3. If you took what you have and went out of your way (or Lennon did) to give it some personality of its own past Mother 3, it'd be a really impressive treat.

The game has plenty of personality past Mother 3 and its personality is hardly based on Mother 3 other than graphics and some of this personality is apparent in the screenshots...

The menu doesn't look very good, though. I know you said it looks better in game, but how is that possible? It's a static menu, no? Then it will look exactly like it does in screen shots. It has some of that critical element not present elsewhere in the presentation and takes on a life of its own past Earthbound-style, but it's just too loud. There's too much going on. Strip some of it away but leave the core idea and you'll have a good menu.

I mentioned this earlier in this post. In fact if anything, the messy bookmarks help create a border from the inner part of the notebook to the outside map.

edit: If you want some examples of interesting simple styles, look at andyw's game trailer thing. There are like a bajillion completely different styles in there, and they're all really simple (you know, before the crazy pixel shaders or whatever is going on). There is a difference between being reminiscent of a style and being exactly the same though, you follow?

By the way, that isn't a game trailer. That's a bunch of different abandoned projects he put into a video.

A busy menu doesn't magically have its woes cured by having a higher resolution. If anything, a menu should stand up at most resolutions, if it works right. It's a bit like bad shading in dark colours; you should be able to recolour shades to anything and have it stand up. Having darker colours that are harder to tell apart (or, in this simile, a larger resolution) shouldn't act a crutch for the menu.

You are way off the mark about saying this has nothing in common with the Mother series. I can't stress enough that I don't think that's a bad thing, Earthbound is one of my favourite games. But from a visual standpoint and, from what I've seen from the dialogue and related stuff, the humour this game is EXTREMELY similar. I'm sure you don't fight Starmen and Giygas, but you've sort of piggybacked exactly the same things that make Earthbound so enjoyable.

edit: and to write that off is dumb. Just embrace the damn connections or work on giving it more of a critical difference people can actually notice.

edit2: if you mix graphics well, it shouldn't look like a clusterfuck. Those people are doing it wrong. I think what he was trying to say is that in many cases, Earthbound/Mother 3 graphics mixed together would have served you just as well as original graphics for what you have currently shown.

A busy menu doesn't magically have its woes cured by having a higher resolution. If anything, a menu should stand up at most resolutions, if it works right. It's a bit like bad shading in dark colours; you should be able to recolour shades to anything and have it stand up. Having darker colours that are harder to tell apart (or, in this simile, a larger resolution) shouldn't act a crutch for the menu.

Saying "A busy menu doesn't magically have its woes cured by having a higher resolution." doesn't really mean anything. I already said it's not magical. Also no, I don't think your analogy fits. Something that makes more sense is the lighting effects thing that people always say about screenshots looking especially dark when at a 1:1 ratio.

You are way off the mark about saying this has nothing in common with the Mother series. I can't stress enough that I don't think that's a bad thing, Earthbound is one of my favourite games. But from a visual standpoint and, from what I've seen from the dialogue and related stuff, the humour this game is EXTREMELY similar. I'm sure you don't fight Starmen and Giygas, but you've sort of piggybacked exactly the same things that make Earthbound so enjoyable.

What HAVE you seen of the dialogue? Now you are just talking out of your ass and making stuff up. No dialogue has been publicly released. How do I know this? There is no ingame dialogue yet, everything is written in a massive 100-or-something page document by a friend in Alaska who has no regular internet. In fact, other than these screenshots, there's almost nothing publicly known about the game except a few graphics posted around.
And I didn't say we have nothing in common. It's obvious we are influenced and I did say the game has a similar quirkiness. And if you can't really see how the game has any personality, *shrug* then I won't really be able to convince you otherwise with just screenshots.

edit: and to write that off is dumb. Just embrace the damn connections or work on giving it more of a critical difference people can actually notice.

Err... what was this referring to?

edit2: if you mix graphics well, it shouldn't look like a clusterfuck. Those people are doing it wrong. I think what he was trying to say is that in many cases, Earthbound/Mother 3 graphics mixed together would have served you just as well as original graphics for what you have currently shown.

No they wouldn't have. In fact, very few of their graphics would really represent what we want for the game.

Spookface:

You told him to not go custom. As long as it's not ms paint spray that is probably the dumbest thing I heard. Is lennon's art magically supposed to look much different from other sprite designs? Is he suppose to magically make some neiche art style that has not been discovered? If he mimic something slightly more complexed you would have been "MAD STYLE BRO".

I get what you are saying about simple non shaded spriting. Really, go look at Andy's 12 dead project video. Go look at the spriting, most of it is very simple aside from a select few. When you think amateur game art that style is usually associated with it. I can even say the same thing with Lazreal recent videos (and his old ones). None of that matters because those games still look great and function very well.

You told him not to go custom simply because you do not like how it looks, period. Then you suggested he use rips. Lmao, if you don't like the style don't play the game? All you had to say was I don't like how simplistic it looks and it's not my cup of tea. You don't say "Remix some chips like a real pro or sprite better then Square Enix." You're taking a person preference and passing it off as legitimate CC.

Kaempfer:

You never read any of the game dialogue and you're making wild assumpsions. Again you can very much say that you don't like the style or it looks similiar to Earthbound series. Your comments about the menu are sound whether it's right or wrong.

Btw I'm not calling anyone out just leave the stupid comments out and give the guy chance. This is also the screenshot topics where screenshots used to be posted (2007).

this must have been really hard for you to accept/admit. you should be proud you are pushing such racial/pixel boundaries. this is truly a hallmark for rpgs

ghostface (killa??)

You seem to also have a problem with black people? i can post more white if that would make you more comfortable

um how do you say...
keep on trolling keep on rolling

ok so apparently you can't read either??? lemme break down what I said/meant. never said custom was bad. never said simple was bad. But THAT SPECIFIC STYLE was lazy and unoriginal and that if his custom graphics are going to be THAT SIMILIAR to an already exisisting game then he could save some time by using that game's graphics. then azn made the point of games always using the same snes game graphics, to which I diligently counterpointed that when ppl do that they usually mix them into something new. (similiar to how a dj takes different songs and makes them into sick beats dogg))

My main point was that the graphics are not lazy? We hardly churn them out quickly or anything. And how is drawing a ton of custom animations and whatnot lazy compared to... pasting snes chapsets onto a template.

I'm black.

Yeah I knew I would get chewed out for the dialogue remarks but I left 'em in for some reason (mystery reasons)

No, I haven't seen the dialogue. What I meant was the wording- the menus, for instance, "hat power" "beefiness" "guarditude" et cetera. There is a lot of the obvious "heh irreverence" vibe that Earthbound was steeped in like a fine tea. But the comments about the menu still stand: I am giving feedback about the menu. If you don't want feedback about how it looks in screenshots, don't post in the screenshot topic asking for feedback. 1+1=whaaaa

How to argue like Azn: Nitpick semantics (maybe it wasn't nitpicking here, but those two words (the dialogue) sure formed the crux of your counter-argument!), offer vague rebuttals and just skirt around the things you can't rebuke or defend.

Don't fucking take every word at its literal value. I am trying to offer insight into how others view your game. If I choose a few words and they sound kind of silly to you, try imaging what I'm trying to say, not EXACTLY THE WORDS I CHOSE. Is that so hard? I have tried to reword it several times already since you seem to have the imagination of a brick, but to no avail. Figure out that I am trying to give you an outside opinion, don't just keep reinforcing you insular, self-righteous stance with worthless "you gotta see it to believe it!" nonsense.

The second you aren't being showered with praise you turn into an absolute cunt, Azn. I've seen this many times before. I'm not going to sift through countless logs to find quotes, because this isn't a debate. Just take my word on it. Why bother to invite opinion if you are going to invariably try your hardest to devalue those opinions?

@The Ghost: I've repeatedly said I really like the style and that that isn't the problem. Learn to read.

KOG
1) You're retarded, did you just say I have a problem with black people because I don't like the way you type?
2) You're not black.
3) Even black people who talk slang wouldn't understand you.

Kaempfer my point is you shouldn't even mention the dialogue. I already know you acknowledged that has nothing to do with what I said. I said you're jumping the gun with the dialogue, when did I mention the style of the game (which I know you've said countless times you liked)?

Kaempfer my point is you shouldn't even mention the dialogue. I already know you acknowledged that has nothing to do with what I said. I said you're jumping the gun with the dialogue, when did I mention the style of the game (which I know you've said countless times you liked)?

Kaempfer:

You never read any of the game dialogue and you're making wild assumpsions. Again you can very much say that you don't like the style or it looks similiar to Earthbound series.

???

Even your own posts are over your head

I'm gaming and trolling.

Edit:

Listen Azn got a little defensive but you some of the things you guys said were wrong. I like how you ignored my original statement about how you jumped the gun with the dialogue Kaemfer.