Poll: dont read the thread, just answer

16
87 51.5%
-16
67 39.6%
I don't know how to do this math
15 8.9%

Status: Voting has ended

168 Total Votes

Poll -4^2 (Read 10413 times)

  • Avatar of Barack Obama
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Jun 16, 2008
  • Posts: 5244
MIT has a class called "street fighting mathematics" online
  • Avatar of Barack Obama
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Jun 16, 2008
  • Posts: 5244
Nvm I'm gonna look at my butthole in the mirror
  • Insane teacher
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Oct 8, 2002
  • Posts: 10515
No, there certainly wouldn't be any pressing need to but I can definitely think of times when I wanted/needed to find out something and knowing processes like that has saved me a whole hell of a lot of tedium.

Maybe marmot exaggerated a little bit because he's majoring in something that uses math heavily (and I guess I'm a little biased there too) but I honestly can't think of anyone who wouldn't benefit in some way from it. At the very worst you gain nothing.

I mean shit reading all those english classes in high school didn't do anything for me just by virtue of making me read a lot of fiction, but the act of analyzing them definitely diversified the way I think now.

reading i think is a good example; a lot of people stop at like DICKENS and think welp im done but if you keep reading the analyzing and cultural and blah blah it all gets better BUT

i just don't see calculus having the same effect!

MIT and berkley put a lot of course lectures and materials online and there are bittorrent links with the entire teaching company catalogue and rosetta stone software language software. Plus project gutenberg has a lot of the western classics online!

We have no excuses for not being geniuses

this is for sure and I actually have the pimsleur courses, like ALL OF THEM, and I plan on getting around to it when I know I'm not going to have surgery/chemo brain. I was plowing through french at a reasonable speed last time.

but here's the thing about math, I think it just polishes what you have when you get good at it. like I remember grasping concepts for the first time in CSC and being just blown away, absolutely stunned, that this kind of thinking existed. but with math these come so few and far between.

it's a bit like this speedreading program. it's working sure enough but the thing is it's working with some edited classics. like CHILDREN'S VERSION of huck finn is what they use. so if I read a sentence like:

the amaneusis could not fulfill the Proscrutean requirements of sesquipedalian prose, so she was terminated as an act of you could describe as eleemosynary.

because I'm not also speed CONTEXTING since I don't know these words all that speed reading is completely useless! I think knowing the concepts of calculus is far more important than taking it, if that makes sense, and I think I grasped the concepts pretty much the day they were taught, but then HEH DID YOU KNOW YOU CANT INTEGRATE THIS? MEMORIZE A CHART pissed me off.

also I learned most of these today:

amaneusis- a secretary
proscrutean- named after some greek guy for arbitrary standards
sesquipedalian- lots of syllables
eleemosynary- charitable
brian chemicals
  • Insane teacher
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Oct 8, 2002
  • Posts: 10515
MIT has a class called "street fighting mathematics" online

http://www.cracked.com/article_16558_smash-bros-theory-6-absurd-classes-taught-at-actual-colleges.html
brian chemicals
  • Avatar of Barack Obama
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Jun 16, 2008
  • Posts: 5244
I don't see a problem with being a "math-philistine" if you don't have a use for deep math in your daily life. Honestly its p. boring if you're not applying it to something real.
:]
  • Avatar of Marmot
  • i can sell you my body
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Apr 14, 2004
  • Posts: 1243
what?

the whole point is marmot said CALCULUS, not math, CALCULUS, specifically increases your analytical abilities in such a way that it affects every day life.

I'm arguing that I think these basic analytical skills are set up in algebra already and while there are a few instances where calculus makes you think in a different way for a a problem, comparing it to something like the liberal arts in how it affects basic thought process seems a little fuckin grandiose.

I mean the only times I could tell calculus had improved me in some real tangible way was when I thought about zeno's paradoxes or really neat math shit. I do not think by doing lots of math I was able to see a homeless person and somehow my analytical skills from calculus kicked in and I gave them some change because I don't need it. I'm even going so far as to argue those kinds of skills are created anyways with people who don't even do MATH of any kind.

and for day to day math I can't think you'd need to do more than algebra.


jesus you are kindof dense. i said calculus not because you have to find how to do a box with less cardboard but because its a logical challenge by itself and it is a good excersize. do you need to use clever wordplay and ramble stream of consciousness because you read joyce?????? do you think you get taught goddamn cellular biology in highschool because you are going to become a biologist? the point is learning how to think, not the mateiral itself. math majors do better in the lsat because they take on challenging logical problems, and one of them is calculus (in fact prolly most of it is calculus)! just stopping at easy stuff like highschool baby algebra (because there are some really challenging problems but people dont gbet taught those) is like asking people to stop reading at animals farm of whatever shit they ram down your throat in highschoolñ anyway, if you want to be kindof educated you atleast need to go all the way to calculus in math man, the differential equation is the soul of all hard sciences and it is the defacto language of change. that is why in all those really dumb ivy colleges they prolly force you to take atleast calculus even if you are some squishy english major.  :fogetshrug:
-
  • Avatar of Marmot
  • i can sell you my body
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Apr 14, 2004
  • Posts: 1243
anyway, a lot of really smart people in the humanities were math savvy. marx was competent at calculus and kant studied mathematics and so was prolly most of enlightment philosophers. even dumb hegel wrote about calculus so i assume he atleast understood it. bertrand russel was also an able mathematician. these people were good at both sides of their brain and that is because they probably complement-
-
  • Insane teacher
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Oct 8, 2002
  • Posts: 10515
Quote
i said calculus not because you have to find how to do a box with less cardboard but because its a logical challenge by itself and it is a good excersize.

there are other logical challenges in non-math fields why do you think you need to do calculus to develop this.

i mean a lot of humanities majors have to debate at some point in their academic career do you think that is not a logical challenge at all?
brian chemicals
  • Avatar of Vellfire
  • TV people want to leave
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Feb 13, 2004
  • Posts: 9602
this is a weird reference because whatever class that is in the room before us in english was watching that movie today

we watched this movie in every math class i had in high school, and even one spanish class, so it was basically a joke in my school because EVERYONE was so aware of this movie, they would take any excuse to show it in my school

that movie is better than marmot's arguments let's share our favorite stand and deliver moments:


what's calcoolus
I love this hobby - stealing your mother's diary
BRRING! BRRING!
Hello!  It's me, Vellfire!  FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER! ... Bye!  CLICK!  @gidgetnomates
  • Avatar of Marmot
  • i can sell you my body
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Apr 14, 2004
  • Posts: 1243
there are other logical challenges in non-math fields why do you think you need to do calculus to develop this.

i mean a lot of humanities majors have to debate at some point in their academic career do you think that is not a logical challenge at all?

of course it is but saying you wont gain anything from learning it sounds like something coming out of some dumb highschool kid. of course they dont need to take math but i think it would help them a lot considering advanced math(like calculus) is PURE LOGIC by itself and a lot of it is completely deductive so its nice rather than being exposed mostly to things that rely more on intuition.
-
  • Avatar of Lars
  • Fuck off!
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Member
  • Joined: Apr 7, 2003
  • Posts: 2360
Digital curcuits is the best for logic training if you ask me!
  • Avatar of Marmot
  • i can sell you my body
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Apr 14, 2004
  • Posts: 1243
anyway a semester of calculus is not as painful as you people make it seem. if you go to class and do your homework its not bad at all honestly. you people make it seem as if you are solving einsteins field equations or whatever
-
  • Insane teacher
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Oct 8, 2002
  • Posts: 10515
no dude you're not getting it (maybe do more calculus with two variables).

like okay let's take two people, a liberal arts guy and a math guy. lets ignore career prospects (because as dismal as the career prospects for a math major are, a liberal arts one tends to be worse) and all that stuff and focus on what they take in college. the liberal arts guy is not likely to take a calc class, the math major will take quite a few.

now the argument as I'm getting it is that the math major will encounter some sort of logical/analytical leap or advance compared to the liberal arts major BUT

I think a lot of people pick this up. like we're still talking about college educated people and you know what liberal arts classes tend to be? seminars. and seminars tend to have debates. why would this not also hone someone's sense of logic and debate?

you'll notice I did bring up the high school kid and called him stupid because the high school kid IS stupid; there's a good chance he hasn't developed objective reasoning etc since it's fucking highschool, where Catcher in the Rye is the deepest book ever and you complain about Portrait of the Artist for being weird. but I think in the end of most people's academic careers, he is right; there's a good shot he or she (thugs n bitches) WON'T ever use that. what small advance they will gain they would gain anyways from their non-math oriented degree.

math is incredibly useful don't get me wrong but to a subset of people. like if we did not have calc we would not have ROCKETS or whatever the fuck. but that's not something anyone outside of NASA will whip out and use. people have made a lot of joke posts about U CANT MATHT HE HUMAN HEART but it's true, you can't! math is useful but the british system honestly would make sense (if it didn't seem to be so ephemeral as to be forgotten in a few years) in many cases!

anyway a semester of calculus is not as painful as you people make it seem. if you go to class and do your homework its not bad at all honestly. you people make it seem as if you are solving einsteins field equations or whatever

neither is a semester of smash bros but you'd still be like MAN WHY AM I DOING THIS if you're never going to use it!

Digital curcuits is the best for logic training if you ask me!
this is hilariously true. this helped me way more than calc or algebra. i knew and and or statements from the circuit shit and they refreshed truth tables.
brian chemicals
  • Avatar of Marmot
  • i can sell you my body
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Apr 14, 2004
  • Posts: 1243
also i hate science majors who say humanities are worthless so my hatred is both sided!
-
  • Avatar of Marmot
  • i can sell you my body
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Apr 14, 2004
  • Posts: 1243
Quote
I think a lot of people pick this up. like we're still talking about college educated people and you know what liberal arts classes tend to be? seminars. and seminars tend to have debates. why would this not also hone someone's sense of logic and debate?

they could pick up some skills but i am sure they will get something out of advanced math! i mean the stats speak for themselves, if math majors have hilariously the edge on liberal arts people on the lsat they must be doing something that helps them! and if a lot of smart people in law school think lsat's very mathematical logical games are important enough to exclude people from a prestigious university or not, it must mean that math after all is very useful for logic, dont you think?
-
  • Avatar of ase
  • It's A Short Eternity... live with it
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: May 23, 2003
  • Posts: 4526
Here's story for ya:

I took Calc1 and Calc2 - got an A- and A, respectfully my freshman year.

Now (my junior year) I'm taking a year of IntroPhysics, mainly a very LOGIC and math-oriented class

Physics1: C+
Physics2: ??? probably similar

I pretty much forgot all but the basics of calc, but assuming taking calculus was supposed to enrich me with ANALYTICAL SKILLS, it's not showing in the grades!!
  • Insane teacher
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Oct 8, 2002
  • Posts: 10515
they could pick up some skills but i am sure they will get something out of advanced math! i mean the stats speak for themselves, if math majors have hilariously the edge on liberal arts people on the lsat they must be doing something that helps them! and if a lot of smart people in law school think lsat's very mathematical logical games are important enough to exclude people from a prestigious university or not, it must mean that math after all is very useful for logic, dont you think?

oh come on you even stated it like it was an lsat question WHAT IS THE ASSUMPTION THE AUTHOR IS MAKING.

first off hilariously the edge? I looked this up and found a jstor link: http://www.jstor.org/pss/1182928

as I'm not a student tho, I can't see this. what I did see I saw in google:

Quote
Economics placed third behind physics/math and philos- ophy/religion in a group of 29 disciplines in both years.

whaaaaat? PHILOSOPHY AND RELIGION has beaten poli sci and crimonology? does this mean GOD helped them do well?

there are all sorts of other factors to consider. for one a lot of people who take the LSAT don't really study for it. like they might take a practice test. but you know who does study for shit extensively and is used to trick questions more than analyzing a passage? your math majors. it is possible math majors have been trained to take tests like this. when's the last time a poli sci student had an exam without an essay portion? the LSAT has an essay portion btw; it doesn't count at all. it's used by law schools who want to see if your score of 168 means you're on the side of 165+ or just a lucky 165- so they read that essay.

I can't account for why philosophy and religion would be second but if it is doesn't this kind of put the lie to math majors just doing better in logic sections? ALSO: we are talking the LSAT. this isn't day to day logic, altho it's a step more applicable than a truth table. these are still phrased like word problems. don't forget that Pascal is famous for among many things his "proof of god's existence" that everyone disproved in a few minutes of hearing it. why would a really famous mathematician like Pascal or Euler still believe in God? or to WITTGENSTEIN IT, why would they even bother as analyzing god through mathematics should be an impossibility? these are still logic, but they missed it. and I know these are a few examples, but we can see loads of mathematicians acting just as illogically as the rest of us.

like we've got some sort of a static here where you say MATH HELPS LOGIC and I say NOT IN REALITY and we're splitting the hair as to how important this could be. like even the LSAT logic game doesn't happen so much; maybe we go out to eat with five friends and one hates Mexican food and the other doesn't want pizza and the other wants cheap but that's not like MARMOT WON'T EAT WITH STEVE AND STEVE LOVES PIZZA AND CHARLES WILL ONLY EAT TO THE LEFT OF JORGE.

so if we approached them with a problem like:

"more people think of tomatoes as vegetables than they do fruit. they also cook tomatoes the same way they cook vegetables. however, biology has determined the tomato is a fruit. a tomato vender is being charged a vegetable tax by a store. should he be charged?"

will the mathematician figure out a right answer? or would that skillset even matter in a real logical dilemma? when we are faced with the prisoner's dilemma, do we need to KNOW the prisoner's dilemma and all the history about it, or do we already know it would be more useful to cooperate? does the prisoner's dilemma even ever occur? can pure mathematic logic apply EVER in real life? or is it more useful to know some logic and then while you might not know you're doing the contrapositive, you might still know it's true?
brian chemicals
  • Insane teacher
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Oct 8, 2002
  • Posts: 10515
the law has determined it is a vegetable btw, and you probably got that in a spam email forward from your mom.
brian chemicals
  • Avatar of Cray
  • One tough potato
  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Jan 15, 2002
  • Posts: 537
Great, I got 16 wich is the correct answer, then selected the other option, wich means I know some maths but lack any kind of connection between my brain and my hand. :D
The convent [FULL GAME]                  Smiley's Quest[FULL GAME]
*Download*                                   *Download*
*Mirror*                                            *Topic*
*Topic*
                            Download my games!
  • Avatar of `~congresman Ron paul~~
  • Legio Morbidius
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Jan 18, 2006
  • Posts: 2653
i know how to do this math i just forgot PEMDAS

That’s right, you have the young gaming with the old(er), white people gaming with black people, men and women, Asian countries gaming with the EU, North Americans gaming with South Americans. Much like world sporting events like the Wolrd Cup, or the Olympics will bring together different nations in friendly competition, (note the recent Asian Cup; Iraq vs. Saudi Arabia, no violence there) we come together. The differences being, we are not divided by our nationalities and we do it 24-7, and on a personal level.

We are a community without borders and without colours, the spirit and diversity of the gaming community is one that should be looked up to, a spirit and diversity other groups should strive toward.
Locked