honestly i'm ignoring any cruelty arguments cause they're dumb and more an argument for EAT ORGANIC or something than vegetarianism. Basically there's nothing ethical or unethical about WHAT we choose to eat. maybe the way it was raised/etc but what we eat doesn't fucking matter. There is the whole we're hard-wired to eat meat/have omnivorous tooth structures/etc that i brought up in a previous veg debate but really it boils down to personal choice. It's pretty immoral to judge someone based on their choice of diet, imo. Seriously do you judge a pig or a crow or a giant panda if you see it eating another animal because THEY CAN SURVIVE withOUt IT TOO. It's a ridiculous argument. I'm not anti-vegetarian but i'm very anti-activism because really fuck you.

ALSO I wouldn't eat a dog or a cat because their meat is grisly and probably doesn't taste good at all.

simple....just set em free....

I think it is a fact that humans are one of the few animals that breed over their natural food limit only to die of starvation if they cannot force an increase in their food sources! Most animals don't do this. Most animals only breed when they don't have to worry about things like: a) starving to death imminently and b) starving to death sort of later.

I find it incredible, the irony; humanity's brainpower allows us to seek out sexual pleasure and get as much as we can, but it doesn't help us to contain our numbers using contraceptives (not all of us, anyways, which is bad). It is at some dangerous level. Like a knife-wielding retard! WATCH OUT!

I have a vegan friend. He's a good guy. He doesn't really say anything about it; his whole stance on the matter is that no one living thing has the right to decide if another lives or dies. He understands the natural order, but believes as humans we should held to a higher level of accountability for our actions. I understand his argument, but disagree; we leave it at that. Once I ate a big juicy steak in front of him. I was torn between my feelings of guilt (not at eating meat but at rubbing in his face the fact that he might be insulted) and my feelings of wanting to rub the steak in his sickly vegan face!

But he didn't care either way. He understands people eat meat. Oh well. People will always meat.

Also, how stupid can you possibly be to assume that we can all live on free-range magical food sources? Of course it would be nice, but some ridiculous percentage of the food we consume is grown in tight-packed, horrid conditions. I'd like to see those conditions improved, if only nominally- there is a difference between "necessity" and "cost maximization" and it would be nice to find a balance somewhere above "absolute worst conditions possible".

Don't you recall the fucking FOOD CRISIS we were having in Egypt like last year, Dok? The government had the army come in and bake bread out of grain they imported from other countries. Grain shortages still exist and are a real fear, BUT now, thanks to industrialized farming, we can create more food than we need. Surpluses mean we can actually send food to other countries that need it (or sell it, heh heh heh capitalism). We wouldn't have these surpluses if not for MASSIVELY industrialized farming. You are a silly person, Doktormartini.

Although you know what would be awesome? Market gardens for every house! The utopian world of tomorrow sees every home have an aeroponic greenhouse... ahh, the future...

edit: does anyone else see a dong flopping down in Dok's avatar? I mean Bob Dylan's a cool guy but choose a picture without a dongmic in it pal

I think street activism really alienates more people from your cause than it draws to it.  Look at street evangelists.  How many people do you think change their ways after watching them scream fire and brimstone on society?  In fact, most people are extremely put off by it.  No matter your belief, leading by example is usually the best way to effectively change minds.  No one likes to be told how to live.

Your best bet is to continue your vegetarianism, and explain your beliefs to anyone that asks why you are not eating meat.  One day someone is going to think, "hey, I know a lot of vegetarians, and they're really doing something different, maybe I'll dapple in that."