that's the point, he isn't some random guy. maybe you've never had any meaningful interaction with him but that's you.

you're only being apologetic for a blatant racist, that's all.

yeah, basically this.

the server is actually physically not even located in the US, so fuck your stupid family/south/america analogies.

also

this is fucking garbage. I don't have the energy or arm power to debate you on this, tho I know you wouldn't be able to defend these opinions/what essentially amounts to liberal whiteguilt buzzwords if you had to. any sort of logic you could fabricate to defend these irrational feelings would mimic objectivism and contradict everything you supposedly stand for. in actuality you banned the guy because you found him annoying, so obviously you'll get some protest from those who didn't find him annoying. that's the limit of the influence of morality on your decision and this discussion.

you clearly don't plan to unban him tho so I guess that's the limit of this convo, might as well delete the thread.

give me one example of you giving this kind of leeway to someone you DIDN'T KNOW. who you didn't have some sort of connection to as a friend or a family member.

its called turning a blind-eye to ignorance in hopes that my non-ignorance will rub off or influence them on a deeper level. Which does actually work over-time. Like I said most of my family has racist tendencies but all my friends are from different ethnicities and cultural backgrounds. My family sees that and they do respect it if even they still hold on to some archaic belief system. They're slowly comin' around, just like anyone else would.
 
That does sound bad though. So its ok to keep on keepin' on when I know the person on an intimate level but if I don't I should hate them? Because thats what that kind of behavior sounds like to me, hatred.

Make sure when you get up that you keep your hand on your butt so your head doesn't fall out of your ass onto the floor.
 
honestly you come back and you're acting like everyone used to. That shit is old, dismissing people who don't think like you as stupid. Its fucking immature as hell.

too much stupid in this topic

leaving

reallllllllly need to stop this

but the forum isn't you

ya, it's not you either. you're not operating under some indisputable objective moral code that everyone follows.

this is so insane I'm just going to ignore this completely.

the path to enlightenment

it's because I personally found him annoying.

it couldn't POSSIBLY be that he's a completely awful person who calls black people ghetto rats and believes racism doesn't really exist and all that's wrong with minorities can be blamed entirely on their own inherent stupidity. that's just not conceivable. it couldn't be that konix linked to a video of a black guy being executed irl on the racist forums inri says he visits and he said the video was pretty funny. OUTSIDE OF THE REALM OF POSSIBILITY.

thanks for making a list, it would have taken me forever. yeah, all those things annoy or disgust you enough that you think he deserves to be banned. that isn't the only possible response. and no, you don't have to be a racist to not have that reaction. you know who I am right? I'm not even Farren who many of us have argued with in the past about perceived sexism and homophobia (not that that should decrease the value of his opinion). I was probably the first person here to speak out against calling everything a faggot or retarded back when the only anathema was racism, and I used to get made fun of for my opinions on feminism/against sexism (some WERE pretty lol tbqh). I'm plenty sensitive to everything inri's said. the worst thing was the snuff film, which would have been worth a ban in and of itself, if only he were the one who posted it. instead, he just ate everything you fed him and turned it back on you by saying something immensely offensive, to a predictable result

I can't go on, please don't form any concrete stable negative opinions of me

what i'm gleaning from what you've said earl is that you think any kind of judgement you could have on someone, about anything they might say, always has to be relative to whatever their background is and other circumstantial factors like how well you know them, etc. i've never really gotten into that kind of thinking because i don't really see what good it does. the stakes couldn't be lower than they are right here, and i'm a bit embarrassed now about how effusive i was with the condemnation in the last post i made because of that, it is just a kind of knee jerk reaction i have. but really i don't think there is anything wrong with it, bullshit like inri was posting is stuff that spreads very easily and the internet, and even my almost sterile real life environment, is infested with it. maybe i shouldn't have been so moral_gamer29 about it but that's just me being a bit dickish - not on the wrong side of the issue.

this kind of thing is just one of those things you don't make allowances for, is the way i see it, if i ever hear anyone say anything even kind of racist i call them out on it in real life. family, friends, employers, acquaintances of mine have all said some dumb shit from time to time and i do judge them on it, definitely, but i don't excommunicate them or anything like that (unless it's really stupid and despicable shit like for example the stuff inri has said). i do take it into consideration and make sure they know that i totally object to it, whatever the issue (if i've got a strong opinion on it).

i got the impression from dietcoke and a couple others that inri was being funny, clever or what he was saying was somehow not that bad, and that was what made me go aw fuck that crap. as to how you deal with ignorant shit well i guess you can take that person by person but i think you've always got to make it clear that these attitudes are intolerable and deserve and need to be burned out of existence.

i'm not well read enough to throw any terms around really, but i see the other side of this as being that because someone comes from a privileged situation then they aren't justified in commenting on someone from an underprivileged situation - and it seems like that extends to just about every way a person can be privileged or not  - as opposed to just white/notwhite, rich/poor or whatever - because if you're going to say we can't say what inri is saying is bullshit because, i guess, it's not truly his fault, then when can you ever criticize an ignorant person at all?

like you said, none of these people are right in the head, but that doesn't just immediately get them off the hook. it isn't just about the offending person and what's best for them, it's about who they are saying it to, what effects it might have, where the hell an opinion like seeing black guys executed is funny comes from (come on, that isn't excused on the grounds of 'we're identical white guys so we don't understand').

but even if the stakes couldn't be lower, for me, inri can still unequivocally get fucked saying stuff like that. inri isn't a bumbling innocent here, he's on the internet just like the rest of us and he's gone far beyond just being accidentally ignorant; he actively participates, enjoys and promotes stuff we all think is the worst and it's not anyone's responsibility to keep quiet about that because he might have a gap in his understanding. what's the better thing, tell him how repellent he's being or just let the shit sit in the middle of the room and stink the place up?

the only reason i'm posting about this is because i think it's an interesting topic - not inri, but this idea of what you can really judge and where lines are drawn - and it's something i don't have completely figured out yet. i need to be much smarter because it's a big old issue, but i still feel relatively safe in my approach to this kind of thing, where ever i might see it - and it is a genuine reaction, not just masturbation (maybe the REPUGNANT TURD bit was okay...) - and i don't really see what moral relativity can do to dislodge that feeling at this point.

anyway, i don't think he should be banned, but i don't think anyone deserves to be criticised for telling him off either. 

feeling a slight change in my bones after getting all of that out of my system.

jamie, just reading the first paragraph of your post, you have already posted the strongest argument for banning inri (I read the last line of your post too and agree, unban him!!). I'll read the rest shortly but first

what i'm gleaning from what you've said earl is that you think any kind of judgement you could have on someone, about anything they might say, always has to be relative to whatever their background is and other circumstantial factors like how well you know them, etc

sorta, bringing up their background is just convenient bc it should give everyone an instant and easily-comprehensible perspective. it's much easier not to judge someone if you know them or understand their background. I can't bring myself to lay off random faceless youtube poster making racist family guy comments, but it's much different with someone I know.

and actually moving on to the rest of your post, I agree with laying into people for saying racist or bigoted shit and judging them for THAT alone, but hopefully not actually changing my opinion of them as a whole, not as an assessment of value

i'm not well read enough to throw any terms around really, but i see the other side of this as being that because someone comes from a privileged situation then they aren't justified in commenting on someone from an underprivileged situation - and it seems like that extends to just about every way a person can be privileged or not  - as opposed to just white/notwhite, rich/poor or whatever - because if you're going to say we can't say what inri is saying is bullshit because, i guess, it's not truly his fault, then when can you ever criticize an ignorant person at all?

neither am I, but yeah, that's pretty much what I'm saying. like you can condemn what it is they're saying or doing, but as soon as it comes to thinking they're BENEATH YOU for it, it gets petty and immature. "they shouldn't be racists, they can HELP it!! therefore the subhumans deserve my scorn": this is where the arguments start to become identical to an objectivist's. simultaneously we are human, and this is apparently a natural response to something reprehensible. to expect everyone to be fully understanding all the time is unrealistic, and everything would probably end up being disingenuous and overly dry and serious anyway--but it's important to get the idea, I think, even if you don't ascribe to it 24/7. it's very difficult to make a point like that anyway

man I'm really not covering this half as well as I wish I was. I feel like I can't communicate well at all when limited to one arm

-

yeah, I'm getting it. I see where the ban inri impulse is coming from, but I still think it's a bit shitty! tho if I don't hate inri for all of the stuff he said, I'm definitely not gonna hold banning him against anyone

even if he'd come back and post some unprecedented shit before getting banned again I would see it as a moral victory

edit:

where the hell an opinion like seeing black guys executed is funny comes from (come on, that isn't excused on the grounds of 'we're identical white guys so we don't understand').

yeah I really hated that too. but I think that was kinda 'trolling', turning the introduction of a snuff film as damning evidence back against em by saying something worse than expected. climbtree used to do the same thing all the time, only with much less grim material. if he was being serious though, the guy's got far more serious problems than I thought.

popping back in to again express shock this is still going in any form.

i never would have thought a thread about racism would be the boon this forum needed!

that said i am glad it did, thank you racism

even if he was trolling, fact is that prettymuch any of his posts in this topic would get you banned from most forums. This isn't the first time inri's said something along these lines, and as a community we have to draw a line somewhere. Next week we'll have a topic saying women are inferior? maybe saying the japanese tsunami was god's judgement on pearl harbour?(actually this happens way too much in other places ) Say we have someone willing to join this forum, the first topic they see is this. Do you really think they'd want to join after reading inri's posts? Even that most of the other posts are telling him off, the fact is that we're still letting him post hate, is not groovy, and makes it look real bad on us.
If I find someone's a member of the EDL (english racist neo-nazi movement) then I cut all contact with them flat out, it's not that anyone is beneath anyone else, but that certain views are detrimental to society, and that distancing ourselves from such views so that those with them are in a distinct and clear minority is a way of showing disapproval.

This isn't a case of a middleclass white guilt circlejerk, it's a case of people noticing that something is grotesque and saying 'you know what? this is really bad. This is toxic stuff he's posting, and if we let him continue then it will be bad for the community'. Yeah, it's a judgement, just like how we all judge paulies, or ann rand's crazy people, or people who enjoy nickleback. Somethings are acceptable to distance ourselves from, and conscidering the level and anger people used to recieve years ago when posting a final fantasy fangame, the idea that we can allow racism but not sephiroth is really bizarre. We hassle mr big t for his games, yet are meant to allow this? Really?

or people who enjoy nickleback.

hey.. i enjoy nickelback. this is their best song yet:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfmFt2aRjM0

like you can condemn what it is they're saying or doing, but as soon as it comes to thinking they're BENEATH YOU for it, it gets petty and immature. "they shouldn't be racists, they can HELP it!! therefore the subhumans deserve my scorn": this is where the arguments start to become identical to an objectivist's. simultaneously we are human, and this is apparently a natural response to something reprehensible. to expect everyone to be fully understanding all the time is unrealistic, and everything would probably end up being disingenuous and overly dry and serious anyway--

No, this is it in a nutshell and its very well worded.
 

even if he was trolling, fact is that prettymuch any of his posts in this topic would get you banned from most forums. This isn't the first time inri's said something along these lines, and as a community we have to draw a line somewhere. Next week we'll have a topic saying women are inferior? maybe saying the japanese tsunami was god's judgement on pearl harbour?(actually this happens way too much in other places [img alt​]http://saltw.net/Smileys/saltw/sad.gif[/img] ) Say we have someone willing to join this forum, the first topic they see is this.

And if they did? So what? There are too many people here that are well educated and enlightened to let that shit just run amok unhindered. I think if we don't immediately ostracize and intellectually attack alot of these people more good can be done. I think that by doing that we sink down to their level and thats why alot of people like that never listen and never will. Because when you shoot them down like that they just get defensive and like in inri's case, act alot worse than they actually are (I hope). But like earl said, calling their offensive ideas atrocious and calling them out on it is a good thing but dismissing them as terrible sub-human pieces of shit is no better than what they're doing in the first place. Because we've got more to work with and we should know better than that.
 
And like I was saying, you can cut out what the guy is saying and make him look like a fool without banning him. Dada could have changed every single one of his posts to Dr. Martin Luther King quotes and closed the topic (if he didn't drop it after being warned then ban him), it would have been pretty funny and more than effective.
 

If I find someone's a member of the EDL (english racist neo-nazi movement) then I cut all contact with them flat out, it's not that anyone is beneath anyone else, but that certain views are detrimental to society, and that distancing ourselves from such views so that those with them are in a distinct and clear minority is a way of showing disapproval.

I think what you don't get is that in this world our views are the minority. So what would we be doing? Distancing our little group from everyone else? Better to turn an enemy than to cut out a potential friend.

dada's pretty level-headed of the mods to ban somebody over personal shit he'd be the last imo

also since it came up nickelback should be a bannable offense - like discussing it, thinking about it, whatever. I'm sorry kaworu but that means you first

I heard somewhere (on accident) dude could suck his own dick. Maybe thats why he thinks he's such a good musician?
 
Also that atrocity came from canada didn't it? Don't blame us...