You can easily get uber charge as medic early by having soldiers and demos blew themselves up and buffing others with extra health during setup. If there's enough people to heal and buff you should be able to start with uber charge.

You can easily get uber charge as medic early by having soldiers and demos blew themselves up and buffing others with extra health during setup. If there's enough people to heal and buff you should be able to start with uber charge.

it's still kind of ridiculous though that you have to plan in advance to have soldiers and demos ubered.

like, look at the game mechanics. almost every class has a downside. Heavys can be taken down by Snipers. Snipers are easily distracted, so they don't see behind or to their sides, and also have that dot thing which tells people they are being sniped. Scouts have shit health. Spies decloak on attack. do I need to go on?

the two "fair" classes are the Soldier and Demo. The Demo now is a little harder to use, because his shots don't blow on impact, and he requires positioning and strategy to use well. the Soldier IS the all around class but he doesn't excel in much; decent health and a rocket jump to give him some interesting movement, but rockets are slow, and yeah, all around class.

the Engineer has no such weakness.

NONE.

the weakness that was supposed to be there was resources, but it's so rare to see that affect gameplay anymore. the engineer can heal, via a dispenser. he has a drop with deadly aim and unbelievable range that can be healed and upgraded, and takes a lot of planning to take down. he has a decent shotgun and pistol, about on par with the scouts, and he has decent health. the same weapon he uses for melee is used for healing and for removing sappers, making spies pretty nigh useless since they can just constantly BEAT on shit. and then there are TELEPORTERS which can move the entire team huge distances in a few seconds.

and there's no weakness! every other character can be taken down by one other. an engineer turtled between a dispenser and a turret can't.

it's just ridiculous to me that Valve thought the best update change would be to remove what made the Demoman's first weapon even usable for me and remove Spy reloading, but not lower the engineer's health or slow him down when he's carrying plans or SOMETHING.

Something I've learned in fortress forever is to always take out the engineer first.

Also engineer weakness:
Tied to his turret so he can't move much further then where his turret lies.

Also engineer weakness:
Tied to his turret so he can't move much further then where his turret lies.

That's hardly a weakness. All it means is that you won't have any engineers on offense, but who the heck expects engineers to go on offense anyway?

That's hardly a weakness. All it means is that you won't have any engineers on offense, but who the heck expects engineers to go on offense anyway?

Teleports.

ahahaha THEY CAN BE SHOT.

wow thanks warv! I love how you just restate everything I already addressed and never once addressed the fact that the engineer has no weaknesses other than CAN BE SHOT which every character has asdfasfasfsdfffff.

no I think I got it. you said because they can be defeated, the game is balanced.

I said since most engineers have realized how to protect their turrets from spies now really REALLY easily, the turret is now even better than it was initially, and initially it was like one or two guaranteed kills if it was placed in an unsuspecting area.

good job warv thanks for the post that doesn't address anything.

Turrets are obviously broken, too. You know how when you place one, you get those two white lines that show its cone of fire? It doesn't work that way at all. They can swing around completely, even if they haven't previously detected you. They also lock on and begin firing in about a tenth of a second, meaning you can't pop in and out of cover to take them out, like the developer commentary implies you can.

Yeah, the only achievement I need is the friends one.  Having a big GW match would be great fun.

Holy crap, guys, this was the thing in Orange Box I was least looking forward to, but after trying it, it's immediately become my favorite multiplayer shooter.  It's just so awesome I don't even know what to say.

A GW game would be pretty cool.

blah blah blah rant blah blah blah okay this is the point I will reply on. ONE, yes ONE heavy can take out that sentry (I know exactly where it is) with a medic ubering them...or a rocket from across the other side. All you do is run in with a heavy ubered and go behind the shed then you have got it for sure. You get so close that you kill it in 0.00325081035 seconds. Bingo, done. Two men, total damage taken: 0

also turret 'arc' on the blueprint...that shows where it can fire without moving. as someone sorta said before you CAN duck in and out from behind cover behind a sentry and kill it without firing a shot...also if you are very good as a scout you can run behind it and CLUB it to death whilst strafing around it and it will never shoot you...i've done it.

all of your arguments are 'FUCK THAT PLACEMENT IS GOOD' instead of 'what can i use to counter that so that he can't do that anymore'

Loads of engies? Use spies and duck in/out of cover. Heavy guarding the engy? Snipe 'im, one shot kill. blah blah blah

also lern 2 play ok

going around the shed wasn't doable because they had dudes around and inside the other base just killing people. sorry but it's just not doable.

I just don't see why you want admit the engineer is overpowered. I don't play with him at all but I found out a dispenser can give you fucking 40 resources a second AS WELL AS HEAL YOU, which I didn't know. without the enemy doing a ridiculous charge of several characters, it's not doable.

there is no other character in the game that absolutely requires an uber to take out the character, let alone something he drops (btw did it strike anyone else as odd how all the characters are male? gender bias etc it was just kind of weird because I know I would have played as a black one eyed scottish woman), but turrets frequently require it. how is that balanced?

also learn to quote jesus christ you've been at this site for years and your code tags were all fucked up.

ONE, yes ONE heavy can take out that sentry (I know exactly where it is) with a medic ubering them

Even in that situation its a close call, and 9 times out of 10 for a turret placement, my ubered heavy can't even close the gap in time because the knockback on the turret is ridiculous.
I mean an ubered ANYTIHNG should pose a serious threat to a turret, REWARDING the players for teamwork. But instead it's a great way to wreck an uber run if a turret happens to be along your route.
The turret seriously needs to be toned down.

Also I would like it if when I'm killed a bunch by a turret, the TURRET becomes my nemesis, not the lazy ass engy that is always sitting behind his dispenser on the killcam.