News Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6 (Read 4197 times)

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Except his 'viewpoint' isn't valid at all because it's just a dumb assumption about the nature of the person which really doesn't have a place in the discussion. If he wants to discuss anything it should be the nature of the crime.
Well...what I was trying to say is that you really can't censure Zeratul for coming to the conclusion he did since the news article does paint the image of a rather unapologetic individual and his monstrous crime. I will have to agree, though, that it is pretty premature to deem the kid WITHOUT REDEMPTION based on the text, but turns out there are a few people out there who wish to argue that.
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You guys...

The kid is just 15 :(

Yeah what he did is horrible but I'd rather have someone 'fix' him than throw him away to let him rot for something he did in his puberty...
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We all missed the point. Look at why he got 60 years.

20 years for assault...
10 years for Sodomy...
10 years for attempted rape even though they counted a rape charge... (which I assume is what they meant by Sodomy, because I can't believe they would charge someone 10 years for the act itself)

Something is not right here.
iirc in some states sodomy is illegal. its the best method places like texas could come up with to try to keep people from being gay
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iirc in some states sodomy is illegal. its the best method places like texas could come up with to try to keep people from being gay
I don't think that's the point. I think what he's saying is: "Look, the total sentence for each of the crimes adds up to 40 years. Why is he getting 60?"
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What? 60 years is not enough. If you rape someone, especially a child, you should get life in solitary with no possibility of parole in my opinion. People like this are scum.
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We all missed the point. Look at why he got 60 years.

20 years for assault...
10 years for Sodomy...
10 years for attempted rape even though they counted a rape charge... (which I assume is what they meant by Sodomy, because I can't believe they would charge someone 10 years for the act itself)

Something is not right here.



In most cases those numbers are just guidelines.  A judge is free to add to or subtract from them as he sees fit.  Besides, Zeratul is right that the sentence will be reduced.  I mean hell, the average murderer serves about 20 years, so this will probably be knocked down to somewhere around 6-10 years max. 
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Well... I am alittle late on getting to this, but here is my two cents;

When a child is under the age 12(average) they are like sponges. They suck up everything they feel, hear, and see. At such a young age it is very easy to leave impressions of what is right and wrong, what is accepted and what is not. It is also easy to permanently scar someone for life physically and mentally. That being said, the fact that the 15 year old kidnapped, beat and sexually assaulted a girl means 1 of two things to me;

1) He was extremely pissed at the girl for some reason(Highly unlikely, and it was not mentioned in the link).
2) The boy has had a twisted upbringing which made him think it was ok or that he could get away with it.

Eitherway, Anyone who pulls this shit before they are 18 is highly unlikely to change from what I have seen/heard. That being said. I think they the sentence was too light. If I were the judge, the kid would be sentenced to death. Why? Because I doubt any amount of prison time will change him. I bet he will try the same shit once he gets out of prison, so I would say he needs to be executed.

Before any of you start bitching at me, the boy basically murdered the girl in my opinion. I would put money down saying that the girl will not be okay when she grows up. She will probably be paranoid and scared of nearly everyone. A sexually assault on children under the age of 12 should be sentenced the death penalty in my books.
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You guys need to READ THE ARTICLE.

He was thirteen when he commited the crime, not fifteen. He is fifteen now.
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the point of prision is not to punish you, it is to rehabiliate you, to be sent to prison for 60 years defeats the whole point of PRISON.

however, I don't mind turning a blind eye, yes its wrong but I really don't care about this kid...that is why I don't plan on being a cop, or a anything that requires me to strip my personal emotions.
Last Edit: November 19, 2007, 02:37:23 am by Xeno|Soft
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the point of prision is not to punish you, it is to rehabiliate you, to be sent to prison for 60 years defeats the whole point of PRISON.
w.. no it's not. i mean, some prisons try to do that but it's an outside effort. prison is a place of punishment; a place where bad is sealed away. they don't care about rehabilitation at all, really.

edit: like if you're grounded and can't go outside. that's not rehabilitate you, it's just to punish you. hopefully you will use that time to reflect on your mistakes and not make them again when you're allowed out
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the point of prision is not to punish you, it is to rehabiliate you, to be sent to prison for 60 years defeats the whole point of PRISON.
Rather, prison is like a college education for criminals. You want to learn how to be a good criminal? Spend a few years in the slammer.
Eitherway, Anyone who pulls this shit before they are 18 is highly unlikely to change from what I have seen/heard. That being said. I think they the sentence was too light. If I were the judge, the kid would be sentenced to death. Why? Because I doubt any amount of prison time will change him.
Man, that is terrible. I'm glad I don't live in America or any other country that supports the death penalty. There's something wrong here when people are perfectly okay with a 15 year old kid being killed for a crime he committed two years ago.
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Eitherway, Anyone who pulls this shit before they are 18 is highly unlikely to change from what I have seen/heard. That being said. I think they the sentence was too light. If I were the judge, the kid would be sentenced to death. Why? Because I doubt any amount of prison time will change him. I bet he will try the same shit once he gets out of prison, so I would say he needs to be executed.

Before any of you start bitching at me, the boy basically murdered the girl in my opinion. I would put money down saying that the girl will not be okay when she grows up. She will probably be paranoid and scared of nearly everyone. A sexually assault on children under the age of 12 should be sentenced the death penalty in my books.

Fuck you asshole.  THE SENTENCE WAS TOO LIGHT holy shit man.

I can acknowledge that what this kid did was disgusting and he needs to be punished for it, but what's with this NO SECOND CHANCES THROW HIM IN THE ELECTRIC CHAIR mentality?  That's horseshit.  Fuck the FROM WHAT I CAN TELL HE WON'T CHANGE argument because you probably can't tell shit, buddy.  Why can't we give him a chance for rehabilitation?  Aren't we no better than he if we just throw him away and forget about him?  I know that you think you're being COMPASSIONATE by caring oh so much for this girl, but if you were really compassionate you would care for the lives of both the girl and the boy.  They certainly both need it.

And yeah dude do you think KILLING HIM will make the girl feel any better because it probably won't make a difference.

ps yeah the girl will probably be have issues for the rest of her life but shes far from dead, dude. 
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I don't think that's the point. I think what he's saying is: "Look, the total sentence for each of the crimes adds up to 40 years. Why is he getting 60?"

No. I left out the kidnapping charge of 20 years. My point was that they seem to be packing on charges by renaming the same crimes... on top of being excessively long.
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Fuck you asshole.  THE SENTENCE WAS TOO LIGHT holy shit man.

I can acknowledge that what this kid did was disgusting and he needs to be punished for it, but what's with this NO SECOND CHANCES THROW HIM IN THE ELECTRIC CHAIR mentality? 

Its like this; Why take chances with some who is very likely to commit rape and murder? I have heard many cases like this where a kid between the age of 12 and 16 committed a serious crime. Not once have I heard that they changed after any punishment. Instead all I hear/see is that these people did something worse when they got out of juvy.


Why can't we give him a chance for rehabilitation?  Aren't we no better than he if we just throw him away and forget about him?  I know that you think you're being COMPASSIONATE by caring oh so much for this girl, but if you were really compassionate you would care for the lives of both the girl and the boy.

I am really curious... How would you rehabilitation someone like this? Honestly, I don't think its possible without methods short of those used in the book 1984 where they made the main character love big brother through torturing him over and over again until he agreed to anything the person doing it said. Maybe if we did just destroy him we are equally as bad in your eyes. However, when I look at it as sacrificing one life to protect several others.


If I wanted to be compassionate, I would have said the girl should be destroyed as well since she probably wont carry her own weight in society... ever. Such a person is merely a hindrance that wastes time and resources.
Last Edit: November 19, 2007, 03:10:18 pm by XaviarCraig
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Xaviar, I know many people that were abused as a kid and are now perfectly normal people, why makes you think you know that she won't be able to be a normal human being in society?
and we have lots and lots of people that are dead weight on our society , that's what we decided to do. we have big cities so not ALL of us HAVE to be useful, we have sick people, we have old people, etc, they're all dead weight by your standards but that doesn't mean it's better to get rid of them.
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Well having such a horrible thing happen to her at such a young age. It does not seem likely that she will ever return to normal. How would you even begin to treat/rehabilitate a young girl from such a thing?

My definition of "dead weight" is someone who can not function in society without constantly using more than they produce. A semi retarded high school drop out that becomes a grocery store clerk for the rest of his life is NOT dead weight. A woman who constantly needs meds and therapy just to live each day with out a nervous break down without a job IS.

I raise the question; why NOT remove the dead weight from society to make it better?

Again I am just stating my opinion which is open to change. If you disagree, explain why without resorting to insults. If you do and your point(s) are valid, chances are I will revoke my statements.
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Xaviar is right. The boy should be killed in the most horrible way imaginable to make him suffer for his sins. Also the girl should be killed because it is a widely accept fact that people who are abused like this as children usually end up crazy/depressed/suicidal/stupid. She will be nothing more than a burden to society and should be silently removed from the population imo. If we did this more often our society would be much better. We would have less crime, less intolerance, racism, pollution, and more goodwill towards others as they have proven themselves useful and worthy to the rest of humanity. In fact, we should kill all prisoners too, because they are in prison due to breaking laws. They are burdens of the state which need to be destroyed. We shouldn't have to pay for them, and if you aren't going to kill them at least stop pampering them. We should also destroy all victims of crimes as they are obviously either too weak to defend themselves or will be permanently damaged from the crime. I should also destroy my neighbour JUST BECAUSE I DON'T LIKE HIM. Really why do we even have laws? Everyone should just be destroyed to prevents crime, wars, and general antics that are detrimental to anything.
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Rather, prison is like a college education for criminals. You want to learn how to be a good criminal? Spend a few years in the slammer.Man, that is terrible. I'm glad I don't live in America or any other country that supports the death penalty. There's something wrong here when people are perfectly okay with a 15 year old kid being killed for a crime he committed two years ago.

I'm gonna have to agree with you. I don't think he really needs to be killed, but he should be made to face what he did, and to understand what he did was wrong.

His crime was extreme, and I think it's really hard to make a fair punishment for such an unfair act. Is 65 years in prison too extreme? The girl is most likely going to suffer all of her life due to the atrocities commited to her. How do we make a fair punishment for that? Is there one?
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Well having such a horrible thing happen to her at such a young age. It does not seem likely that she will ever return to normal. How would you even begin to treat/rehabilitate a young girl from such a thing?

My definition of "dead weight" is someone who can not function in society without constantly using more than they produce. A semi retarded high school drop out that becomes a grocery store clerk for the rest of his life is NOT dead weight. A woman who constantly needs meds and therapy just to live each day with out a nervous break down without a job IS.

I raise the question; why NOT remove the dead weight from society to make it better?

Again I am just stating my opinion which is open to change. If you disagree, explain why without resorting to insults. If you do and your point(s) are valid, chances are I will revoke my statements.
All right, I'll try not to insult your, eh, rather draconian viewpoints.
The biggest problem with your line of logic is that it requires taking a snapshot in time and making judgments based on that snapshot. What if the woman in your example is only in this state for a year or two, and after considerable therapy and meeting with the right people she goes on to become a high profile director of an institute which services women who had similar plights to hers? If we just take that snapshot of yours, we'll kill her, and instead keep a "semi retarded high school drop out" who, we'll say to further my argument, is going to be working in the grocery store, in the same position, until he's too old to work anymore.
The other problem is that such a government would be unsustainable in the long run. I think you'd find that the process involved in 1) trying to find out who's "worthy" of living, 2) Assessing thier overall situation, and 3) killing everyone who fails to meet standards would be cumbersome, costly and wouldn't really help you that much in the end. You'd be so wrapped up in paperwork and bureaucracy that you'd have a long line of "unworthy people" dying before they could get killed. (Hey, this is starting to sound like death row...) Remember, Albert Einstein didn't do well in his younger years in school; by your standards, he would've been killed off and we would've lost so much.
Besides, don't kid yourself: Most (I would even guess all) Americans use resources above and beyond what they produce. I don't think even you would be stupid enough to think that 310,000,000 people ought to be killed for this, although I guess I could be wrong.

Also, although I wouldn't argue that rehabilitation isn't impossible, I would also point out that our current system for dealing with prisoners leaves little room for rehabilitation. Our prison system is HORRIBLE at making people better members of society. If we're not sticking them in a cell, beating them all the time and feeding them lousy food until their time is up, we're giving them soft beds, television, gyms, computers, and more resources than some of them will ever enjoy outside of "the pen." Not to mention it's notoriously difficult to find a job or an apartment after being released from prison (even after a false conviction!).

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XavierCraig: i think we should turn the prisoners into soap..... so that they are at least useful to us. they did it before in another country to people they didn't like and it worked pretty well.

I'm also really glad to know that you got the author's intended meaning out of 1984. Good job!
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