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Topic: Finding a #$!$# Wii. (Read 10902 times)

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Ratt

#81 January 25, 2008, 03:00:20 am

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Quote from: EvilDemonCreature on January 24, 2008, 11:36:27 pm

Well yes, if you look at it at face value. But how many people actually buy more than five games for any given console?

If you are the kind of person that needs to play more than 5 games before the console's life cycle ends, then there is something wrong with you.

There, I said it.

So having 40+ DS games is bad?

nuts....

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Kezay

#82 January 25, 2008, 03:12:48 am

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Quote from: EvilDemonCreature on January 24, 2008, 11:36:27 pm

Well yes, if you look at it at face value. But how many people actually buy more than five games for any given console?

If you are the kind of person that needs to play more than 5 games before the console's life cycle ends, then there is something wrong with you.

There, I said it.

Well damn, at launch I bought six Wii games.

Of course I didn't "need" to play them, I just wanted to. So I think I'm safe on a technicality or something. :P

By the by:

*salutes Sarhan*

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Artis Leon Ivey Jr

#83 January 25, 2008, 03:25:42 am

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Quote from: Sarhan on January 25, 2008, 02:54:12 am

Right, but a person who owns a Wii and has played the games first hand has a more valid opinion than you do. Remember Last Man on Earth and how you bitched at me about it when I hadn't even seen the movie? It's the same thing here, except I backed down and you don't want to because you can't stand to lose an argument.

no, it's not the same at all. if you knew all the actors in Last Man on Earth, read the plot, and knew the director's techniques, I would never have said a thing. dude you don't have to own a console to say it's not worth buying! do you have a PS3?

(if you do that's a more interesting conversation because what a worthless fucking console, please justify that)

the validity of the opinion is quibbling because then everyone would have to buy everything to accurately judge shit. what new knowledge would I gain from owning a Wii that I wouldn't get from outside knowledge and from experiences I've had with it, other than losing money?

I don't have to vote for Ron Paul or George W. Bush to know they are terrible in completely different ways.

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That's the thing though. Some people don't care about story lines. Some play games for the gameplay. People tell me Elder Scrolls has an amazing story, but I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole because the gameplay doesn't appeal to me, regardless of how good the story might be. All of those people who play shooters, fighting games, sports games, party games, music games, etc. don't care about story so they play games with good gameplay, which appeals to them. If Guitar Hero or Smash Bros. or Halo focused on story instead of gameplay, they wouldn't sell nearly as well as they do.

Your argument really only applies to RPGs and action/adventure games, which need a decent story (and even then, if gameplay is top notch, it can be overlooked by most). Not saying your opinion is wrong here since story may be more important than gameplay to you, but again, they're just opinions anyways. No right. No wrong.

which is better? a console that can appeal to the person who wants stories as well as just games like Rock Band, or a console that seems to almost pander exclusively to the GAMEPLAY ONLY crowd?

I remember Shigeru Miyamoto said he didn't even keep up with the industry (when someone asked about spherical worlds from Ratchet and Clank and he was like SORRY NO IDEA WHAT THAT IS I DONT LIKE VIDCONS). if that was anyone else, we'd all be on their ass for being hilariously out of date, but instead it's some form of innovation to provide the same thing Pong did years ago.

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Tell me exactly what you're getting from investing your time into other consoles that the Wii doesn't offer? You're wasting your time one way or another. All you get in return is entertainment. So if a console keeps you entertained, it's done its job.

yeah, but the point is that some consoles can keep you entertained in MORE ways than the Wii.

it's not like I'm a fanboy; I think the 360 is the best of this generation and I hated the original XBox and really liked the Gamecube. I think this console allegiance shit is hilarious and shit like

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*salutes Sarhan*

is ridiculously gay. it's not a fucking WAR (gotta support my best man in this fight....) but like I said, most of GW wants to view it like OH STEEL JUST HATES ANYTHING POPULAR instead of the fact that I endorse what I endorse because I might actually like it sometimes and degrade shit because it's not that great.

what you get in return for not investing in a console that is essentially commited to pure basic entertainment is the same thing people get for supporting more intellectual films over action ones they might like. while the entertainment factor for both might even be EQUAL, the fact remains that a movie (or game) that has a good emphasis on plot while still remaining a good experience is far rarer than just a nice pick up and play game. your argument of entertainment would make sense if the overwhelming majority of games didn't feature completely worthless plots.

brian chemicals

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Kezay

#84 January 25, 2008, 03:58:46 am

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*is ridiculously gay apparently*

Though I'm not the one making note of this being a war, but take it as you will. (or rather, have already done) You tend to spout off at the mouth and the fact that Sarhan is even putting up with you, if anything, is a testament that he at least respects you enough to even discuss the matter to the lengths you two have gone. Things really could be worse in that people actually just cast your ranting off as nothing more than you "raging against the -pop- machine" or some nonsense like that such as you're alluding to.

In any case, thus far I've merely taken this as you simply having an opinion. If you don't like, then you don't like it and that's just fine, but Sarhan definitely makes a great point that you just seem unwilling to back down even light of your opinion being accepted as such despite the other party (ies) involved who might disagree on the whole. Is it really that serious? Something that you seem to want to be so passive about because you adhere to that opinion but you post as if it's a personal mark against your livelihood here on GW.

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AdderallApocalypse

#85 January 25, 2008, 03:59:24 am

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Quote from: dangerousned on January 25, 2008, 03:25:42 am

no, it's not the same at all. if you knew all the actors in Last Man on Earth, read the plot, and knew the director's techniques, I would never have said a thing. dude you don't have to own a console to say it's not worth buying! do you have a PS3?

(if you do that's a more interesting conversation because what a worthless fucking console, please justify that)

the validity of the opinion is quibbling because then everyone would have to buy everything to accurately judge shit. what new knowledge would I gain from owning a Wii that I wouldn't get from outside knowledge and from experiences I've had with it, other than losing money?

I don't have to vote for Ron Paul or George W. Bush to know they are terrible in completely different ways.

It's more like "You don't have to own a console to say that you may not like it." I have seen many cases where people THOUGHT they may not like something, but in fact, they may get enjoy it a little bit after all to their surprise. Things DO work that way, so regardless of what you have seen, it could very well be that the wii has something you'd enjoy. Of course it also holds true that you very well may not like it like you say, but the way you judge something is based on your own observations about it. This is why you may not like something, but someone else does. You can make judgements on it based on what you've seen, but you take what you see and then formulate your ideas based on that. If you take a game that is shitty according to general consensus, then whether someone would like that game or not is still for them and them alone to say.

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which is better? a console that can appeal to the person who wants stories as well as just games like Rock Band, or a console that seems to almost pander exclusively to the GAMEPLAY ONLY crowd?

I remember Shigeru Miyamoto said he didn't even keep up with the industry (when someone asked about spherical worlds from Ratchet and Clank and he was like SORRY NO IDEA WHAT THAT IS I DONT LIKE VIDCONS). if that was anyone else, we'd all be on their ass for being hilariously out of date, but instead it's some form of innovation to provide the same thing Pong did years ago.

Your analogy of the consoles does not matter. It may be a fact that another next gen console would have a larger variety of games, but that does not make it better. The larger variety of games is objective, but saying which is better is purely subjective to one's opinion.

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yeah, but the point is that some consoles can keep you entertained in MORE ways than the Wii.

it's not like I'm a fanboy; I think the 360 is the best of this generation and I hated the original XBox and really liked the Gamecube. I think this console allegiance shit is hilarious and shit like

You can base your assumptions based on the fact that yes they are CAPABLE of providing more entertainment due to it's sheer variety, but as stated earlier it boils down to exactly what one likes to play.
So that means that even though it is capable of it, doesn't mean it will because the consoles are entirely different, which means their libray of games will be different as well.

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is ridiculously gay. it's not a fucking WAR (gotta support my best man in this fight....) but like I said, most of GW wants to view it like OH STEEL JUST HATES ANYTHING POPULAR instead of the fact that I endorse what I endorse because I might actually like it sometimes and degrade shit because it's not that great.

what you get in return for not investing in a console that is essentially commited to pure basic entertainment is the same thing people get for supporting more intellectual films over action ones they might like. while the entertainment factor for both might even be EQUAL, the fact remains that a movie (or game) that has a good emphasis on plot while still remaining a good experience is far rarer than just a nice pick up and play game. your argument of entertainment would make sense if the overwhelming majority of games didn't feature completely worthless plots.

The plot thing is devoid of meaning, really. If you find the game enjoyable then that is what matters and that is just that. Whatever one prefers is the same thing that most likely they will play, regardless of:story, plot, graphics, etcetera.

You seem to think that the next gen consoles besides the wii have the same games the wii does, and other games in addition. This obviously isn't the case here. The 360 has it's games while the wii has "wii games" with their own way of controlling it, etcetera. Maybe if the their was a console JUST like the wii with EVERY wii game and everything else similar PLUS additional games, then it would be better. This is because you couldn't really argue on something that has everything the same PLUS more, even though it is still subjective to your opinion.

Last Edit: January 25, 2008, 04:11:24 am by Omcifer

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Artis Leon Ivey Jr

#86 January 25, 2008, 04:21:48 am

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Quote from: Kezay on January 25, 2008, 03:58:46 am

*is ridiculously gay apparently*

Though I'm not the one making note of this being a war, but take it as you will. (or rather, have already done) You tend to spout off at the mouth and the fact that Sarhan is even putting up with you, if anything, is a testament that he at least respects you enough to even discuss the matter to the lengths you two have gone. Things really could be worse in that people actually just cast your ranting off as nothing more than you "raging against the -pop- machine" or some nonsense like that such as you're alluding to.

In any case, thus far I've merely taken this as you simply having an opinion. If you don't like, then you don't like it and that's just fine, but Sarhan definitely makes a great point that you just seem unwilling to back down even light of your opinion being accepted as such despite the other party (ies) involved who might disagree on the whole. Is it really that serious? Something that you seem to want to be so passive about because you adhere to that opinion but you post as if it's a personal mark against your livelihood here on GW.

kezay everyone knows you are the biggest nintendo fan boy in the world so honestly I will not take anything you take seriously because you are easily the most pathetic person I've ever met on these forums.

kezay if posting just "applauds" is not masturbatory horseshit indicating this is some battle and Sarhan is on yours, what is?

ps what's the great point he made? that people don't need stories to play games? because in that world people would LOVE that fucking awful remake of Planet of the Apes and the Oscars would all go to Jackie Chan.

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It's more like "You don't have to own a console to say that you may not like it." I have seen many cases where people THOUGHT they may not like something, but in fact, they may get enjoy it a little bit after all to their surprise. Things DO work that way, so regardless of what you have seen, it could very well be that the wii has something you'd enjoy. Of course it also holds true that you very well may not like it like you say, but the way you judge something is based on your own observations about it. This is why you may not like something, but someone else does. You can make judgements on it based on what you've seen, but you take what you see and then formulate your ideas based on that. If you take a game that is shitty according to general consensus, then whether someone would like that game or not is still for them and them alone to say.

I offer the same exact question: why didn't you buy a PS3? do you own all three consoles? how about the Phantom? or this bootleg DS from China? after all, if you have to own shit to know if it's any good at all, you need to buy everything. saying that OH SOME PEOPLE CHANGE is so incredibly lmao because I've used a Wii and played it extensively because its the only console I have at my apartment you dummies. I haven't bought a single next gen console yet, I just played my roommates's so how come I have reached the conclusion that the 360 is better???

must be magic...

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Your analogy of the consoles does not matter. It may be a fact that another next gen console would have a larger variety of games, but that does not make it better. The larger variety of games is objective, but saying which is better is purely subjective to one's opinion.

it does matter you fool. Nintendo has NEVER proved themselves as being the plot centered developers. they take pride in MASS MARKETING entertainment. the Wii was named because it was for mass market appeal. they don't give a shit about anything smart or interesting, just FUN SHIT. this is what their model is. you have severe brain damage if you think it's anything else.

not that Sony or Microsoft have models that are pro-story or anything, but at least they aren't so anti-story as Nintendo has always been.

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The plot thing is devoid of meaning, really. If you find the game enjoyable then that is what matters and that is just that. Whatever one prefers is the same thing that most likely they will play, regardless of:story, plot, graphics, etcetera.

the fucking point is that if you are going to go ahead and apply zero value to the story, you have lower standards and therefore people with higher standards will want a different console. so either admit that the Wii is for swinging around and pointing at shit or actually argue that story and atmosphere and basic plot telling and development has absolutely nothing to do with games and the enjoyment of them because unless you want to prove Zelda is some powerful epic of love and loss you're out of options.

ps: the fact that you enjoy a few games with no plot does not mean that a console specializing in games with no plots is a good idea because this retards everything to board game level.

brian chemicals

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Artis Leon Ivey Jr

#87 January 25, 2008, 04:24:54 am

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here is a simple boiled down point because everyone lacks reading comprehension.

1. the Wii has near zero story based games
2. any medium that hopes to progress depends on becoming more complex and thoughtful instead of less
3. the Wii, by alienating any story based developers, retards gaming, and many many quotes show that they intentionally do this
4. therefore, as anything other than a base means of entertainment, the Wii harms the gaming industry as a whole by making it more about FUN GOOFY TIMES and less about experiences
5. every other console, barring the shitty PS3, has balanced games of entertainment and games of story and there's no excuse for Nintendo to not do the same.

okay there maybe that will help?

brian chemicals

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Kezay

#88 January 25, 2008, 04:42:31 am

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Quote from: dangerousned on January 25, 2008, 04:21:48 am

kezay everyone knows you are the biggest nintendo fan boy in the world so honestly I will not take anything you take seriously because you are easily the most pathetic person I've ever met on these forums.

Oh, well boo fucking hoo. That's exactly what I'm talking about - I'm sorry your world is is that much more violated because you have an opinion (zing!) about me. But at least it keeps with the theme of the current ongoing argument eh?

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kezay if posting just "applauds" is not masturbatory horseshit indicating this is some battle and Sarhan is on yours, what is?

It certainly isn't that, I can tell you that much. I could have really done much worse and offered some backhanded commentary for good measure; as oppose to offering you the benefit of a doubt after the fact.

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ps what's the great point he made? that people don't need stories to play games? because in that world people would LOVE that fucking awful remake of Planet of the Apes and the Oscars would all go to Jackie Chan.

You don't need stories to play games. If the end result you're seeking is entertainment, fun, enjoyment, some value of what you paid for the experience, then what more else do you need? It's just that you have different idea of what constitutes that overall value where Sarhan at least is offering the idea that it doesn't have to be either/or. But I think that's as such because we've established that you are able to have an opinion; and so you have it. The thing is, the same people who can't stand Planet of the Apes or Jackie Chan, aren't necessarily going to attribute those very same tastes to other mediums and vice versa. Yeah, they CAN (and that's really all that this is about) but a fan of the Matrix isn't necessarily going to balk at WiiSports because the two are so far and away very different from one another and the reverse of that is true as well.

I like stories in my games, but I don't need them to enjoy a game if it's genuinely fun on its own merits.

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Artis Leon Ivey Jr

#89 January 25, 2008, 04:52:14 am

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Oh, well boo fucking hoo. That's exactly what I'm talking about - I'm sorry your world is is that much more violated because you have an opinion (zing!) about me. But at least it keeps with the theme of the current ongoing argument eh?

fun fact: on the day Kezay found out he was to be an uncle, he posted on his blog but could not resist talking about the Nintendo DS in the same entry.

doubly fun fact: Kezay has a whopping 49,034 posts on NSider forums. no one on GW comes close to half this number. NSider was founded in 2000, which is about as old as GW is.

edit: triply fun fact Kezay is the world's most rabid fanboy and honestly everyone knows this.

how could I suggest he's a complete fanboy who has never proven himself to ever be unbiased..................shame on doop

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It certainly isn't that, I can tell you that much. I could have really done much worse and offered some backhanded commentary for good measure; as oppose to offering you the benefit of a doubt after the fact.

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You tend to spout off at the mouth

you just seem unwilling to back down even light of your opinion being accepted as such despite the other party (ies) involved who might disagree on the whole.

Something that you seem to want to be so passive about because you adhere to that opinion but you post as if it's a personal mark against your livelihood here on GW.

no backhanded comments here at all look how dumb you are.

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You don't need stories to play games.

yeah and you don't need drums or guitars to make a decent rock song but limiting yourself is pointless and hilarious.

Last Edit: January 25, 2008, 04:55:22 am by dangerousned

brian chemicals

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AdderallApocalypse

#90 January 25, 2008, 04:54:28 am

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Quote from: dangerousned on January 25, 2008, 04:21:48 am

I offer the same exact question: why didn't you buy a PS3? do you own all three consoles? how about the Phantom? or this bootleg DS from China? after all, if you have to own shit to know if it's any good at all, you need to buy everything. saying that OH SOME PEOPLE CHANGE is so incredibly lmao because I've used a Wii and played it extensively because its the only console I have at my apartment you dummies. I haven't bought a single next gen console yet, I just played my roommates's so how come I have reached the conclusion that the 360 is better???

must be magic...

I didn't buy a ps3 because it is/was too expensive. For something else, I just think I may not like it, not that I actually don't because I haven't played said console/game/etcetera yet. I will pick up a ps3 before long, until then I just don't have the time for it but the wii and 360 I already have anyhow. I may not buy something because I THINK I won't like it, but if for some reason in the future I play it AND like it, then I will pick the game up. This has happened before to me. Anyways, really, you saying you "know it isn't good" is still subjective either way. While you may be more of a 360 person, fine, but not everyone is.

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it does matter you fool. Nintendo has NEVER proved themselves as being the plot centered developers. they take pride in MASS MARKETING entertainment. the Wii was named because it was for mass market appeal. they don't give a shit about anything smart or interesting, just FUN SHIT. this is what their model is. you have severe brain damage if you think it's anything else.
not that Sony or Microsoft have models that are pro-story or anything, but at least they aren't so anti-story as Nintendo has always been.

Ok, so maybe THEY AREN'T too story heavy but interesting is different, because I personally find Nintendo to be rather interesting, but again that is just me. They aren't WORSE because they don't worry about story as much, at least not to me. This is because you and I see worse as two different things, when we judge what worse actually is.

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the fucking point is that if you are going to go ahead and apply zero value to the story, you have lower standards and therefore people with higher standards will want a different console. so either admit that the Wii is for swinging around and pointing at shit or actually argue that story and atmosphere and basic plot telling and development has absolutely nothing to do with games and the enjoyment of them because unless you want to prove Zelda is some powerful epic of love and loss you're out of options.

Wanting a game with a good story is higher standards as far as story itself is concerned, but doesn't matter if you aren't too concerned about the story to begin with. This boils down to what someone wants, not what is better because better is in the mind of the player.

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ps: the fact that you enjoy a few games with no plot does not mean that a console specializing in games with no plots is a good idea because this retards everything to board game level.

There is far more to do in a wii than in a board game. It is still a VIDEO GAME nonetheless. You are basically saying that "Console with games that have no plot=suck", but it isn't that simple because the games aren't JUST 360 games ONLY whatever plot it has and/or dumbed down a bit. They are different games in their own right. It wouldn't be fair for me to say "Console with games that have no plot=good idea" because I don't enjoy the games BECAUSE they don't have a plot, that is rather absurd!

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Rye Bread

#91 January 25, 2008, 04:59:16 am

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I'm not going to get myself too involved with this back and forth bickering, but I completely agree that Nintendo's apparent hatred of plot-driven games in favor of just base entertainment really limits the console, and is why I never touch my Wii anymore outside of when everyone at the apartment is drunk and want to play some simple mini-game shit.

Hell, the game that's been played the most recently is a console version of a fucking board game.

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Marcus

#92 January 25, 2008, 05:04:44 am

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@Omcifer: What did you just post because I seriously couldn't make heads or tails of that.

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Tell me exactly what you're getting from investing your time into other consoles that the Wii doesn't offer? You're wasting your time one way or another. All you get in return is entertainment. So if a console keeps you entertained, it's done its job.

The main argument against the Wii is that there's absolutely no substance to the thing. You don't need a plot or deep gameplay elements to have fun in a game but GUESS WHAT? Board Games are 1/10 cheaper than the Wii and offer equally deep gameplay for 4-8 more players. Why limit yourself to a machine that boasts TOSS THINGIE AT THINGIE and FLICK YOUR WRIST LIKE A JACKASS on a console built on 10 year old technology when you can actually enjoy yourself on two consoles that have potential to EVOLVE.

The Wii has no lasting value. It may be moderately satisfying now but in a year or two when the current gen becomes old gen people will realize that the PS3 and 360 actually have something new to offer while the Wii is rehashing a new edition of MANIPULATE THE GIZMO but with 2 new microgames. Have you ever stopped and wondered why people keep coming back to the ps2? It's because it

A: There are games

and

B: Sony has established itself as a gamer console.

The Wii was designed for old ladies and people who never even touched a gaming console. Shit, my grandmother plays Wii sports. But the fact of the matter is NON GAMERS DONT BUY GAMES and when the other consoles are putting out new products, the Wii will still be marketing its twitch games. How is a 3rd party developer going to be able to sell SERIOUS SHIT #1 when everyone and their grandmother is purchasing Mario's Picross?

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Hell, the game that's been played the most recently is a console version of a fucking board game.

Speaking of which, I read somewhere that the top 10 selling Nintendo Wii Games where half virtual console games and half 1st party titles.

Last Edit: January 25, 2008, 05:12:32 am by angry black man

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Kezay

#93 January 25, 2008, 05:08:22 am

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Quote from: dangerousned on January 25, 2008, 04:52:14 am

fun fact: on the day Kezay found out he was to be an uncle, he posted on his blog but could not resist talking about the Nintendo DS in the same entry.

doubly fun fact: Kezay has a whopping 49,034 posts on NSider forums. no one on GW comes close to half this number.

how could I suggest he's a complete fanboy who has never proven himself to ever be unbiased..................shame on doop

Shame on you indeed. What exactly does that prove? Especially with the first part seeing the highlight of that entry was my becoming an uncle, nothing about the DS AT ALL as far as I remember. But OKAY! (or did I become the uncle of a DS?) But yeah, that's exactly what I'm talking about. Have you really held this grudge from since 2005? (I honestly don't remember the year, but it was a hell of a long time ago when you first decided to be "honest" about your opinions)

By the by, noticing your edited commentary...

Nsider, the version I joined, didn't open until late in 2003. While the community orientation had existed far earlier (before 2000 even) I was never a part of it until November 2003. Granted, nearly 50,000 posts a heck of a lot and I wasn't even within the top 20 posters on the site, but a lot of that resulted from having nearly every board on that forum contributing a pretty relative topic that I not only knew a lot about, but had far more independence in discussing than in the solitary VG discussion forum here on GW - namely because unlike sites such as Nsider (at the time), Neogaf and MCV not much talk about sales data, industry trends, figureheads and other behind the scenes babble was fostered much on GW. I don't mark that as a bad thing of course, but I'm definitely quite a bit interested regarding happenings in the industry as well as among the games I play... I simply had far more posts on Nsider than GW because I had far more option to discuss a wealth of topics whether it involved Nintendo or otherwise.

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no backhanded comments here at all look how dumb you are.

Heh, so you did miss it. Either way it wasn't some rah-rah go Sarhan, not Steel as you were quick to emphasize through my masturbatory horseshit. ;)

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yeah and you don't need drums or guitars to make a decent rock song but limiting yourself is pointless and hilarious.

That's absolutely absurd in relation to what is being discussed here which isn't surprising seeing as it's exactly in line with what you've been arguing about. You don't need some kind of progressive story to have an enjoyable game beyond Steel's own personal tastes. I'm not sure how much you would consider was involved with story in a game like Smash Bros. or Burnout or something like that, but those are two games that relatively lauded for simply being fun to play. Pointless? Maybe, since there is no real higher calling to these games other than what they are on the surface but the fact that they can be entertaining and in as big a way as they have been certainly speaks volumes on it being legitimate, quality entertainment. Heck, there are people just like you out there who will claim such things and still have their qualms with games that lead in such areas like Metal Gear or Final Fantasy.

It really does take all kinds to create a base for this type of thing and it's really only something that would hold back the medium if people on the whole allow it to. Even if Nintendo are against such things they certainly lead the industry in two generations that spawned quite a few titles with stories that were more than just saving a princess from some cruel fate.

Last Edit: January 25, 2008, 07:19:37 pm by Kezay

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SEimagery

#94 January 25, 2008, 05:10:31 am

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Hey someone close this thread. It's just abuncha kids arguing now, and I got what I needed from the original post. Thanks a lot to those who contributed.

Lessents Story - Coming Soon!

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Shadowtext

#95 January 25, 2008, 05:14:29 am

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Quote from: dangerousned on January 25, 2008, 04:52:14 am

yeah and you don't need drums or guitars to make a decent rock song but limiting yourself is pointless and hilarious.

I think you might be wrong here. I don't think a song without drums or guitar can be rock. Maybe it can be missing one, but not both. I mean without either, what have you got? A keyboard and a bass?

Either way you're wrong, though. Intentionally limiting yourself is a great way to get some new and interesting things out there. You force the stuff that remains to make up for the lack of the other parts, and the results can be pretty impressive.

Anyway, I'd have a lot more respect for the stance that story is such a big deal in games if any of these elitists who spout it out could ever come up with a game that actually had a story that was better than, say, the sort of crap you'd find in a pulp fantasy novel. Find me a video game with a story better than, say, the works of Kevin J. Anderson. If we're talking about an honest-to-goodness storytelling medium, and not just another platform for snobs to be bitches towards other people about, that shouldn't be that hard. He's not an amazing author, just good enough to keep a publishing contract. Which isn't really saying much, because so does Christopher Paolini.

Heck, find me a video game with a story better than the works of Joe Quesada and I'll be impressed! I might even consider easing up on you story snobs a bit. Then I can at least say "With work, videogame stories can be as good as superhero comics! I mean, not the good ones. We're not talking comics by Warren Ellis or anything. But still! They can be as good as crappy superhero comics!"

Unless you count Katamari Damacy as an example of a game with great story, in which case I'll concede. But I really doubt you do.

...I'd also like to point out that I recently bought an XBox 360, and by far the games I've played the most are the demos for Geometry Wars and Catan. The only difference between those games and Wii games are that they're not actually on Wii. Yet.

Take that how you will.

Last Edit: January 25, 2008, 05:18:48 am by Shadowtext

Websites: Shiningbeam.net (Personal) | Bimini Road (Development Circle)
Releases:

Eyrie Platforming Engine for RMXP pre-Alpha (Released 12-24-2006)
Taret Blade Project Page at RMN (Updated 12/09/2007, including Dev Snapshot)

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Ragnar

#96 January 25, 2008, 05:15:30 am

Worthless Protoplasm
Group: Premium Member
Joined: Jun 15, 2002
Posts: 6536

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_onFRu5LOMI

http://djsaint-hubert.bandcamp.com/

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Hundley

#97 January 25, 2008, 05:24:53 am

professional disappointment
Group: Premium Member
Joined: Jun 24, 2002
Posts: 2426

Quote from: Kezay on January 25, 2008, 04:42:31 am

I like stories in my games, but I don't need them to enjoy a game if it's genuinely fun on its own merits.

you know, it's very easy to just say this. the problem with the wii, however, is that they actually managed to make a console that damn near systematically destroyed any potential for legitimate creative expression in favor of some mind-numbingly juvenile notion of FUN. really, saying that you do enjoy games with stories in the same post where you defend the wii automatically undermines any genuine importance that you personally place on any legitimately creative endeavor within games. it makes it clear that you can TOLERATE and ENJOY story-telling in games, but do obviously not REQUIRE IT to even some modest extent.

i really do not think it is a stretch to automatically assume that every console ought to have the capacity for FUN and CREATIVE LEGITIMACY. i do not think you can honestly say this about the nintendo wii without outright lying to yourself, as it is clearly a REQUIREMENT, first and foremost, for every game on the console to be fully compatible with the absurd control system. i can PERSONALLY GUARANTEE YOU that it is impossible to take a game/story/concept seriously as you are waving your arms around like a bloody retard. if you've been wondering why there is ABSOLUTE ZERO INTELLIGENCE within any wii game, then you needn't look any further than the controls. hell, i'm not even going to limit this to story-telling, but strategy is virtually impossible with the wii, because strategy is completely incompatible with the WII NUNCHAKU. going even further than that, i have seen nothing to indicate that the wii has graphical capabilities that much greater than the gamecube, so there is always going to be that feeling that WHOA MAN IS THIS 2004????????

don't get me wrong, i like games that are fun. mario galaxy is a very fun game. one of the stupidest fucking things i've ever invested more than an hour in, but it's a fun game. but there comes a time when you realize that YOU AREN'T 8 YEARS OLD and you want at least somewhat more from the system. i think that humanity is at least occasionally mature enough to warrant not being treated like some half-literate child with muscular dystrophy. MAYBE I'M WRONG????????????????

the wii is so stunningly counter-productive to any sort of legitimate creative progress the videogame industry may have been making. i don't really like doing this, but i'm going to have to say FACT on this one. i don't think i'm some outlandish buffoon when i say that there's a lot more to videogames than FUN. the reality behind videogames is that it's a creative process. ignoring any sort of legitimate, perhaps educated notion of creativity for some overwhelmingly childish notion of masturbatory entertainment is just revolting. and the problem now is that the wii is now showing corporations that there needn't be some creative bar when they ask themselves HOW FAR SHOULD WE REACH. just wave your hands around like a fucking retard and the dollars will start rolling in.

GJ GUYS YOU FUCKING BROKE IT. i was really hoping the corporations wouldn't realize that the masses ACTUALLY ARE that stupid, but you blew our cover and the deep, dark secret is out. now they have no reason to treat us with the slightest bit of respect ever again.

WORDS WORDS WORDS, but i genuinely believe these to be significant issues about the wii and the sort of creative precedent they're setting with this utter bullshit.

ps if it's some sort of QUALIFIER to have an opinion about the wii, i want to say that my friend owns a wii and i have logged significant time in more than a dozen games. and fyi, i have found damn near every moment of it profoundly unrewarding.

Last Edit: January 25, 2008, 05:33:10 am by Hundley

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Marcus

#98 January 25, 2008, 05:25:49 am

THE FAT ONE
Group: Premium Member
Joined: Sep 28, 2002
Posts: 2690

Quote

Either way you're wrong, though. Intentionally limiting yourself is a great way to get some new and interesting things out there. You force the stuff that remains to make up for the lack of the other parts, and the results can be pretty impressive.

Limiting yourself as a design choice and intentionally removing features are two different ball games. The Wii offers nothing for 3rd party developers. You'll never see Bioshock on the Wii. You'll never see Resident Evil 5 on the Wii. You'll never see any 3rd party game released in the next year on the Wii because it's a piece of crap machine by today's technological standards.

If you have fun with shallow, unfulfillable products like UMBRELLA CHRONICLES and RESIDENT EVIL 4 (YET AGAIN) then just buy a basketball and get some fresh air. Shit, buy a guitar and start practicing. In the time it takes you to learn some frets you'll be a better man than if you had spent money on a product that offers cheap thrills.

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Sarhan

#99 January 25, 2008, 05:26:09 am

Group: Member
Joined: Dec 5, 2005
Posts: 943

Quote from: dangerousned on January 25, 2008, 03:25:42 am

no, it's not the same at all. if you knew all the actors in Last Man on Earth, read the plot, and knew the director's techniques, I would never have said a thing. dude you don't have to own a console to say it's not worth buying! do you have a PS3?

No I don't, but I never said the PS3 was good/bad or that the Wii is better. What's the point of asking me if I own a PS3?

Quote from: dangerousned on January 25, 2008, 03:25:42 am

which is better? a console that can appeal to the person who wants stories as well as just games like Rock Band, or a console that seems to almost pander exclusively to the GAMEPLAY ONLY crowd?

Well it seems to be working well for them. Stick to your 360 if the Wii isn't your type of system. Nobody's forcing you to buy/play it. You can have an opinion, but when somebody presents an opinion different from yours and you have to try and prove them wrong, you're the one that's propagating the "console war" you seem to hate so much.

Quote from: dangerousned on January 25, 2008, 03:25:42 am

it's not like I'm a fanboy; I think the 360 is the best of this generation and I hated the original XBox and really liked the Gamecube. I think this console allegiance shit is hilarious and shit like

is ridiculously gay. it's not a fucking WAR (gotta support my best man in this fight....) but like I said, most of GW wants to view it like OH STEEL JUST HATES ANYTHING POPULAR instead of the fact that I endorse what I endorse because I might actually like it sometimes and degrade shit because it's not that great.

I never said you're going against it because it's popular (I don't think anyone did). But like I said above, you're the one who's furthering the argument. By the way, most people like the Wii because it's fun, not because of some made up Nintendo "allegiance" you seem to think they have.

Quote from: dangerousned on January 25, 2008, 04:52:14 am

fun fact: on the day Kezay found out he was to be an uncle, he posted on his blog but could not resist talking about the Nintendo DS in the same entry.

doubly fun fact: Kezay has a whopping 49,034 posts on NSider forums. no one on GW comes close to half this number. NSider was founded in 2000, which is about as old as GW is.

edit: triply fun fact Kezay is the world's most rabid fanboy and honestly everyone knows this.

lol...personal attacks. Typical.

Quote from: dangerousned on January 25, 2008, 04:52:14 am

yeah and you don't need drums or guitars to make a decent rock song but limiting yourself is pointless and hilarious.

Do you know how stupid that argument is? You don't need a story to make a good game. That's a fact. You need a story for a good RPG, but not for every genre.

Quote from: dangerousned on January 25, 2008, 04:21:48 am

ps what's the great point he made? that people don't need stories to play games? because in that world people would LOVE that fucking awful remake of Planet of the Apes and the Oscars would all go to Jackie Chan.

Dude...games aren't the same as movies. Good movies are like good books. Most movies need a decent story to be worthwhile. Games don't. That's a very shitty argument.

Quote from: dangerousned on January 25, 2008, 04:21:48 am

the fucking point is that if you are going to go ahead and apply zero value to the story, you have lower standards and therefore people with higher standards will want a different console

Millions of people have lower standards than you apparently. Why not just ignore those people whose standards aren't as good as yours instead of fighting with them?

Go cool off and play the 360.

EDIT:

Quote from: Shadowtext on January 25, 2008, 05:14:29 am

...I'd also like to point out that I recently bought an XBox 360, and by far the games I've played the most are the demos for Geometry Wars and Catan. The only difference between those games and Wii games are that they're not actually on Wii. Yet.

Geometry Wars is already out for the Wii.

Last Edit: January 25, 2008, 05:31:00 am by Sarhan

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Shadowtext

#100 January 25, 2008, 05:30:11 am

Journeyman Mage
Group: Member
Joined: Mar 23, 2005
Posts: 454

Quote from: Hundley on January 25, 2008, 05:24:53 am

i can PERSONALLY GUARANTEE YOU that it is impossible to take a game/story/concept seriously as you are waving your arms around like a bloody retard.

I can personally guarantee you that if your ability to enjoy life is predicated on the assumption that you're not going to look, sound, or otherwise just come off like a total asshat while going about it, that you're not going to be enjoying life very much.

To turn around your own argument on you--you're not fifteen anymore. Stop caring so much about how dignified you come off.

Websites: Shiningbeam.net (Personal) | Bimini Road (Development Circle)
Releases:

Eyrie Platforming Engine for RMXP pre-Alpha (Released 12-24-2006)
Taret Blade Project Page at RMN (Updated 12/09/2007, including Dev Snapshot)

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