Topic: 'Watchmen' movie... and videogame... (Read 29861 times)

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Yeah guys, I don't think it looks very good!

Zack Snyder is kind of a hack, imo.  To me he has like at the vanguard of the mass of directors that do ONE THING and are totally incapable of anything else, and the worst part is that the one thing he does is completely substanceless.  When I saw the trailer, the thing that stood out to me the most is how to anyone who hasn't read Watchmen, it must look really goddamn cheesy, and Rowain, having never read it, agreed.  I think it looks like another stupid hollow overly-stylized Zack Snyder movie, to be honest.  What did we seee in the trailer?  Nothing of note.  Some dude getting kicked through a window, and a bunch of other random action scenes.  The whole thing looks too BADASS and that is really kind of missing the point of why Watchmen was good and not just another silly comic book about silly superheroes.

Movies like this and Sin City all kind of annoy me with how gimmicky they are about stuff, but the difference is that even the Sin City comics are kind of pulpy and stupid, so the movie was a fairly faithful adaptation.  Watchmen, not so much!  I guess you can't take a two-minute trailer to mean a whole lot, because like Jamicus said, they play up the stupid parts, but at the same time it was telling enough with that FROM THE LEGENDARY DIRECTOR OF 300........ shit because 300 wasn't a particularly good movie, and this guy seems like the type of guy who thought it was, and who would want to ruin another movie by making it, so that sort of made me think we could expect the same thing out of this that we got out of 300: fucken sweet action scenes dude like that one time he took his sword and just chopped that guy's head off like SWIIISSHH and then turned around in slow motion and was like "whos next???" i give it an a++ would buy director's cut dvd

Everyone at comics and cartoons board at 4chan has been predicting that "I did it 35 minutes ago" will become the new catchphrase just like "THIS IS SPARTA."  All the action scenes with Rorschach will probably be done in slow motion followed by his trademark Hayter-esque grunts and groans "HRMHRM RAAAAAARL!"
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i did it 35 minutes ago


i don't remember this line at all!
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I still haven't figured out why Watchmen is supposed to be so special. Everybody who likes it seems to have a very low opinion of the superheroes that have been icons for decades, but Watchmen itself doesn't seem to be much more than a grim version of some second rate superhero story like the Starjammers or something.
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i think a lot of people like watchmen for precisely the same reason they don't like most superhero stuff.
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i did it 35 minutes ago


i don't remember this line at all!

Ozy said it right before the awesome climax.  It was spectacular because

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I still haven't figured out why Watchmen is supposed to be so special. Everybody who likes it seems to have a very low opinion of the superheroes that have been icons for decades, but Watchmen itself doesn't seem to be much more than a grim version of some second rate superhero story like the Starjammers or something.

Watchmen was originally going to star DC heroes but they said "fuck no you can't screw with our universe" so Moore had to come up with a bunch of lookalikes (Rorschach is based on The Question, Nite Owl is Batman, Dr. Manhattan is Superman, etc.). 

Besides being well written, it completely avoided the common tropes associated with hero comic book material.  The heroes were fallible which made them seem more human, the story didn't try to shove a moral or force a particular viewpoint down your throat, and there were a lot of risks taken that no writer before then has ever done such as metafiction that connected the story together and the main character dying in the first panel yet still remaining important throughout the story.

If anything Watchmen was the bridge that allowed people who wanted to read an actual story instead of follow ridiculous continuity. Back then, only indie comics and the rare translated manga had an actual plot with beginning middle and end but they were pretty much in the realm of self depreciating autobiographies with tons of awkward sex and drug abuse that could only be purchased in a head shop but Watchmen popularized comics as an actual cinematic story telling medium instead of monthly serial arcs where everything resets in the end.

I just wish it wasn't such a huge influence on new writers that only see the comic on the surface level.  I specifically blame Moore for the flood of uninspired and generic GRIMDARK material of the 90s.  Nowadays EVERY comic has to have gratuitous sex, violence, and rape scenes because dumbass editors think people won't take a story seriously unless someone gets rammed up the ass forcefully.
Last Edit: July 19, 2008, 10:28:17 am by Marcus
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Yeah it's the only superhero comic I've enjoyed since I was six years old because they're all terrible pretty much.
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Alan Moore created Rorschach as a logical extension of Steve Ditko's characters like Mister A and The Question, both of which follow Ayn Rand's personal philosophy, Objectivism.[3]

Moore once said about Ayn Rand's Objectivism: "I have to say I found Ayn Rand's philosophy laughable. It was a 'white supremacist dreams of the master race,' burnt in an early-20th century form. Her ideas didn't really appeal to me, but they seemed to be the kind of ideas that people would espouse, people who might secretly believe themselves to be part of the elite, and not part of the excluded majority."
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i think a lot of people like watchmen for precisely the same reason they don't like most superhero stuff.

yes. this is the whole point i think!
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I like that it's an actual story, as opposed to events from a superhero's long line of stories, but other than purposely trying to break the mold, I am still missing it. I'm interested though, so hopefully if I pick up the book I won't be disappointed.

That's kinda gay about DC tho. Why do all these comics feel they need to copy DC characters? I thought Wanted was garbage because of this, I really don't see how it could be that hard to instill the same emotions in another character that you would get from Captain America or Batman.
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Instill the same emotions as batman, you gotta be kidding me.
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To me he has like at the vanguard of the mass of directors that do ONE THING and are totally incapable of anything else, and the worst part is that the one thing he does is completely substanceless.  When I saw the trailer, the thing that stood out to me the most is how to anyone who hasn't read Watchmen, it must look really goddamn cheesy, and Rowain, having never read it, agreed.  I think it looks like another stupid hollow overly-stylized Zack Snyder movie, to be honest.  What did we seee in the trailer?  Nothing of note.  Some dude getting kicked through a window, and a bunch of other random action scenes.  The whole thing looks too BADASS and that is really kind of missing the point of why Watchmen was good and not just another silly comic book about silly superheroes.

I've never read Watchmen before I saw the trailer, and now I know more about it in retrospect, the trailer is pretty awesome. I can recognize all of the scenes and the characters (Dr. Manhattan's 'birth', Dr. Manhattan and Silk Spectre on Mars, the 'intrisic field' experiment, Dr. Manhattan's role in the Vietnam War, The Comedian being a dick as usual, Nite Owl, etc). If you're a fan and you can't recognize these things or you see 'nothing of note', then well, you weren't paying attention.

As for "What if you saw the trailer and you weren't/aren't a fan", I dunno about that either! Most of the people I know who's seen the trailer are pretty interested in it and about it. I agree the trailer doesn't hit the note of exactly why the Watchmen is good from a literary note, but I'll be damned if it isn't accurate to the novels at least visually.
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It's not that I wasn't paying attention, it's that I actually read Watchmen and appreciated it for what it was, and what this movie pretty clearly isn't.  Have you read it since you saw the trailer, or did you just read up on it?  I was under the impression this was a new trailer.  Anyway, do you know what is conspicuously absent from this trailer, and what was the single thing that made Watchmen?  Dialogue.  Why do you think that is?  Yes, the scenes were of some significance in the book, but taken out of context, they're meaningless excuses to show Dr Manhattan blow some guy up, or make some big spinning gear thing, or stand there and look cool.  I'm not looking for scenes I recognize that I can look at and say "whoa that happened in the book!!!", I'm looking for scenes show some level of depth or significance in the movie itself.

I think people, yourself included, often forget what trailers are supposed to be.  You're supposed to get what the movie will be like out of them.  Why is it that the only things they showed us are stupid action scenes and overly stylized GUY STANDS THERE AND LOOKS LIKE A BADASS shots?  Because that's all you can expect from the movie.  The point is that a scene being of note in a book doesn't mean the same scene is automatically of note in the movie, no matter how little they bothered to do with it.  When I say OF NOTE, what I mean is of note in the movie itself, not a scene that's of note in the book and just took and artlessly shoved in the movie and expected to have the same impact.  None of what they showed us in the trailer mattered; it was just stupid effects and fluff.  None of what they showed us resonated or seemed worthwhile, or was anything more than just superheroes looking cool.  Like I said, trailers are supposed to be reflections of what they movies are going to actually be like, and all this trailer was was FROM THE VISIONARY DIRECTOR OF 300, MORE SHALLOW GARBAGE NERDS EVERYWHERE WILL LAP UP.

Look at the trailer from The Dark Knight, and all that you could get out of it in terms of what the movie was about, what types of people the characters were, and so far.  None of that is present, none of the scenes they show stand up on their own AS SCENES and instead rely on the fact that people will recognize them and know their significance in the book and just carry it over to the movie by themselves, and none of the characters really do anything besides stand there for dorks to ogle.  So yes, I would say I was paying attention throughout the preview, and clearly just got something else out of it.  Also, again, I'm wondering if you read Wacthmen.  How is it visually accurate, exactly?  It looks like a Frank Miller novel, except in color.  Watchmen was nowhere near as stylized as Snyder is making this movie.
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Okay, you've made some good points even if I don't agree with all of them (or most of them).  Let me ask you this, though, what could they have done to make the trailer closer to the actual feel of the graphic novels instead of what they did with it now? What would you suggest?

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How is it visually accurate, exactly?

I meant visually accurate as in "The same stuff happened in the novel that happened in the trailer." Not like the art style or anything like that.

And BTW, I wouldn't be here if I didn't read the novels at least, guys.
Last Edit: July 20, 2008, 05:32:35 am by Feldschlacht IV
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Yeah I'm going to agree with MOG here. I've shown it to Bisse and a few people irl, and they all have never heard of Watchmen, seemed pretty interested, and this was basically the perfect opportunity to go YOU ARE MISSING OUT GO BUY IT / HERE IS MY COPY DO NOT RUIN IT. A lot of the people irl seemed to question what it was about and didn't really seem to care about it being stupid and hollow because they were asking questions about who these people were, etc. So I think it was a pretty good trailer in that regard!

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think people, yourself included, often forget what trailers are supposed to be.  You're supposed to get what the movie will be like out of them.  Why is it that the only things they showed us are stupid action scenes and overly stylized GUY STANDS THERE AND LOOKS LIKE A BADASS shots?  Because that's all you can expect from the movie.  The point is that a scene being of note in a book doesn't mean the same scene is automatically of note in the movie, no matter how little they bothered to do with it.  When I say OF NOTE, what I mean is of note in the movie itself, not a scene that's of note in the book and just took and artlessly shoved in the movie and expected to have the same impact.  None of what they showed us in the trailer mattered; it was just stupid effects and fluff.  None of what they showed us resonated or seemed worthwhile, or was anything more than just superheroes looking cool.  Like I said, trailers are supposed to be reflections of what they movies are going to actually be like, and all this trailer was was FROM THE VISIONARY DIRECTOR OF 300, MORE SHALLOW GARBAGE NERDS EVERYWHERE WILL LAP UP.

Look at the trailer from The Dark Knight, and all that you could get out of it in terms of what the movie was about, what types of people the characters were, and so far.  None of that is present, none of the scenes they show stand up on their own AS SCENES and instead rely on the fact that people will recognize them and know their significance in the book and just carry it over to the movie by themselves, and none of the characters really do anything besides stand there for dorks to ogle.  So yes, I would say I was paying attention throughout the preview, and clearly just got something else out of it.  Also, again, I'm wondering if you read Wacthmen.  How is it visually accurate, exactly?  It looks like a Frank Miller novel, except in color.  Watchmen was nowhere near as stylized as Snyder is making this movie.

Actually since this is coming out in like a whole nother year, I thought this was just like EARLY TRAILER #1, and they will make a second trailer more expanded later like they usually do. I was under the impression this was just a trailer to get the hype ball going and get people asking questions and give an excuse to make the Watchmen novel cost 25$.
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Actually since this is coming out in like a whole nother year, I thought this was just like EARLY TRAILER #1, and they will make a second trailer more expanded later like they usually do. I was under the impression this was just a trailer to get the hype ball going and get people asking questions and give an excuse to make the Watchmen novel cost 25$.

Yeah this too. Keep in mind they want to attract new blood to watch it, and they're not going to do that by making their first trailer all "Deep and about themes such as consequentialism" and all that shit.
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Oh, I see.  Yeah, I guess the same stuff superficially appears to happen!

Anyway, I would suggest dialogue.  More character interaction.  More scenes that are just good CINEMATICALLY and not good because you recognize it from the novel.  More scenes where not only are people talking, but perhaps a bit of what the movie is, you know, ABOUT is conveyed to the viewer, because Watchmen is definitely ABOUT something, but you'd never know from the trailer.  There was this tone that the world was building up to something throughout the novel and they didn't even bother to go after it in the trailer.

Say instead of having a random montage of superheroes looking cool shots, they started with panning over the city or something, and having a bit of dialogue that is maybe a bit telling of the situation or the tone of the setting, because god knows there's enough of it throughout the novel that they could've found a clip.  Maybe show the Comedian getting tossed out the window, and cut to bits of Rorschach doing his thing, trying to investigate and find out who did it, maybe have a voiceover from him playing in the background, letting the viewer know how bitter and jaded he is about things.  How much contempt he feels for the CITY OF SIN (heh,,.heh...) around him.  Then they should show some of the friction and tension that's going on between the heroes and the general public/government, because that's definitely something that they could've touched on in a better fashion.  Show Dr Manhattan, maybe how he was created, and more importantly than HIM KISSING SOMEONE or blowing some Charlie up, I would say show the bit where it is like "God exists, and he's an American" since I felt that was sort of exemplary of the ways in which the government used him.  I would also say show other characters and maybe a bit of action, but it was a long trailer (longer than most, and more than long enough to do something good with), and I don't think I need to go over it POINT BY POINT, but yeah do that and fill the rest of the time with Nite Owl and Silk Spectre and their dynamic, and maybe instead of beginning with panning over the city, they could show a little background on how the current SUPERHERO CLIMATE came to be, with how the first people started wearing costumes and fighting crime and such a generation earlier.

I don't know man, I'm not a FILMMAKER, but they chose all the wrong shit to show basically.

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Actually since this is coming out in like a whole nother year, I thought this was just like EARLY TRAILER #1, and they will make a second trailer more expanded later like they usually do. I was under the impression this was just a trailer to get the hype ball going and get people asking questions and give an excuse to make the Watchmen novel cost 25$.
so they just happen to have a bunch of fly action scenes made and none of substance whatsoever?  I don't think they just happened to shoot it in a way that all the silly stuff was done when it came time for the trailer, but none of the scenes where people talk, interact, mood is set, and so on.  Also note who is directing it, and remember that even from the earliest trailer, 300 looked exactly like what it ended up being.  I don't think movies like this, from people like this, just come out radically different from the trailers.  Like I said, he's a bit of a hack.

Also I kind of think if you are the type to see such a ridiculous trailer and be like gmmmm im intrigued....tell me more about this "watchmen" when it is honestly just EYE CANDY then you are not really a good judge of whether it was a worthwhile trailer to begin with.
Last Edit: July 20, 2008, 05:48:29 am by headphonics
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so they just happen to have a bunch of fly action scenes made and none of substance whatsoever?  I don't think they just happened to shoot it in a way that all the silly stuff was done when it came time for the trailer, but none of the scenes where people talk, interact, mood is set, and so on.  Also note who is directing it, and remember that even from the earliest trailer, 300 looked exactly like what it ended up being.  I don't think movies like this, from people like this, just come out radically different from the trailers.  Like I said, he's a bit of a hack.

I agree, but I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt here because I don't want to be wrong.

Also the 300 trailers were actually better than the movie. ;(
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Anyway, I would suggest dialogue.  More character interaction.  More scenes that are just good CINEMATICALLY and not good because you recognize it from the novel.  More scenes where not only are people talking, but perhaps a bit of what the movie is, you know, ABOUT is conveyed to the viewer, because Watchmen is definitely ABOUT something, but you'd never know from the trailer.  There was this tone that the world was building up to something throughout the novel and they didn't even bother to go after it in the trailer.

Say instead of having a random montage of superheroes looking cool shots, they started with panning over the city or something, and having a bit of dialogue that is maybe a bit telling of the situation or the tone of the setting, because god knows there's enough of it throughout the novel that they could've found a clip.  Maybe show the Comedian getting tossed out the window, and cut to bits of Rorschach doing his thing, trying to investigate and find out who did it, maybe have a voiceover from him playing in the background, letting the viewer know how bitter and jaded he is about things.  How much contempt he feels for the CITY OF SIN (heh,,.heh...) around him.  Then they should show some of the friction and tension that's going on between the heroes and the general public/government, because that's definitely something that they could've touched on in a better fashion.  Show Dr Manhattan, maybe how he was created, and more importantly than HIM KISSING SOMEONE or blowing some Charlie up, I would say show the bit where it is like "God exists, and he's an American" since I felt that was sort of exemplary of the ways in which the government used him.  I would also say show other characters and maybe a bit of action, but it was a long trailer, and I don't think I need to go over it POINT BY POINT, but yeah do that and fill the rest of the time with Nite Owl and Silk Spectre and their dynamic, and maybe instead of beginning with panning over the city, they could show a little background on how the current SUPERHERO CLIMATE came to be, with how the first people started wearing costumes and fighting crime and such a generation earlier.

I don't know man, I'm not a FILMMAKER, but they chose all the wrong shit to show basically.

That is actually pretty awesome and a much better answer than I was expecting. While yeah, they SHOULD have explored more into the actual themes of the novel in the trailer, the way we saw it is the way they've shown it, so I guess that's that until next time. I mean, I think it's partially about perspective. I've seen some hardcore Watchmen fans say the trailer was great, and I'd say their opinion has as much weight as yours, ya know. That's why I'm not going to agree with anyone who says the trailer was bad or anything, it DID show one of the many sides of Watchmen, just not the one you hoped they did, or even the one they SHOULD have did. I think, and a lot of other people think, that the trailer portrayed Watchmen well.

Hell, my TWELVE YEAR OLD SISTER was intrigued by the trailer, and when I actually told her about the graphic novel and what it's about, and it's theme, now she REALLY wants to go see it. I mean, different strokes, man.

BTW

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Show Dr Manhattan, maybe how he was created

Well, they did that already.
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yeah, i know they did it, but i thought i'd mention it since i am trashing the trailer and in actuality i did think that was a part that should've been shown.  i think it would've been cool if they prefaced it with that bit from his childhood where his dad throws his gears off the balcony.  also i would've liked to see a bit of ozy, but not enough to reveal him as being the villain.  and actually the conversation on mars, too, but the ACTUAL conversation, not just him building that palace.

and i mean, it's not just like i'm being HEH WELL IM RIGHT YOUR WRONG BUDDY, because my opinion holds no more weight than any other fans' who, for some reason, probably just because they want to see their favorite comics come to life in any form possible, liked it.  but, you know whose opinion does hold more weight?  moore's!  there's a reason he distanced himself from this shit.  i would say when the original author is being like "fuuuuuuck that", his side is probably the right one.
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but, you know whose opinion does hold more weight?  moore's!  there's a reason he distanced himself from this shit.  i would say when the original author is being like "fuuuuuuck that", his side is probably the right one.

Oooh, didn't know that. That sucks, did he state why? By the way, I think Ozy was actually in the trailer; I didn't spot him at first, but he's the guy in the body suit with the abs with all the screens behind him.
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