yeah uh that works on a small scale but Alec is unfortunately right, if we released a bunch of cows and chickens we'd be seeing a great deal of problems within an incredibly short amount of time. ecosystems would spiral out of control!

not only what steel said but I'm pretty sure in every vegan topic we have come up with a long list of cons that doktormartini has just responded to with pseudo-science biased sources

this is getting old

Haha National Institute of Health is biased? (hint I've sourced them before and my nutrition book/my sisters nursing books source them).

The UN is biased towards veganism?  Lol how about there 500 pages report about veganism and the environment?

I will admit in the past I have sourced some pretty gay shit (lol www.whyvegan.com) but I don't see what the difference is between me sourcing a scientific article or me sourcing an article on a website which in turn cites that scientific article.

I don't see what the difference is between me sourcing a scientific article or me sourcing an article on a website which in turn cites that scientific article.

Because you can cite anything and still be entirely biased in what you write.

At the moment 200 species go extinct each day and while this is largely due to human overpopulation, the meat industry is responsible for more greenhouse gas emissions than the entire transport sector. So yeah, I don't know but I think we're currently fucking up ecosystems, probably more than if cows were "set free" and returned to their natural max capacity.

You realize that this would mean a very large period of time in which cows are roaming free, trampling everything, eating any crops they come across, shitting in the streets, and eventually dying wherever they land.

Do you realize what it would be like to have that many cows roaming free until they DIE?

Not to mention them unsettling the food chain wherever they are released, and eating all the food (do you realize how much a small herd of cows eats in one day, just grass-wise?  They trim down an entire field, that's how much), causing other animals to starve.

You realize that this would mean a very large period of time in which cows are roaming free, trampling everything, eating any crops they come across, shitting in the streets, and eventually dying wherever they land.

How do you think all the animals feel when we do exactly the same thing?

Last I checked, at least personally, I'm not SHITTING IN THE STREETS. also not eating anything I see.

As for shitting in the streets, no.  Overcrowding places, yes.  And, I know quite a few people that eat everything they see (Not in the sense of like every single thing just eat a whole shit load).

As for shitting in the streets, no.  Overcrowding places, yes.  And, I know quite a few people that eat everything they see (Not in the sense of like every single thing just eat a whole shit load).

God you are just fucking trying to sound ridiculous at this point.

Okay, so how will it kill a cow if we walk in front of it while it's walking?  It probably won't do anything but trample us.  But how is it going to be when a cow walks in front of one of our cars?  GONNA PROBABLY KILL SOMEONE.  Hitting a deer can total a car, hitting a cow is probably 10 times worse.  We also don't wander into the gardens or crop fields people's LIVES depend on and eat everything (EVERYTHING DO YOU UNDERSTAND THIS EVERYTHING, not eating a bunch of McDonalds or whatever you are talking about people doing, EATING EVERYTHING FUCKING EVERY LAST BIT DUDE), then walk off to continue eating more.  Seriously dude are you even suggesting that humans being in a HUMAN BUILT WORLD are the same thing as cows being let loose into an environment they do not belong in.  Other animals have their own places, they are capable of living in a world dominated by humans and avoid them.  Cows are domesticated, they are used to being fenced in and taken care of by people, and will just fuck shit up if let loose.  Our cows have gotten loose before, it is a huge problem.  A single cow can and has destroyed our entire vegetable garden, meaning we had almost no surviving vegetables (they also KNOCKED OVER A FEW YOUNG TREES).  If we weren't a pretty wealthy family and had depended on them for our entirely livelyhood, we would have been fucked because of ONE cow.  Now multiply that by the number of cows in the world.



Fuck dude I really can't say much else how do you not see the difference what the fuck is wrong with you.

I just watched Grizzly Man and there's a scene where Treadwell finds a dead grizzly cub's arm and he just kind of falls apart and I thought instantly of Doktormartini. they both share this view of nature that is so completely off base.

also everyone watch Grizzly Man, what a good movie.

If large industrial nations went vegan they would have to destroy most of the livestock. I'm not sure there is practical way around this. (I'm vegan by the way.)

*Edit
I guess if meat consumption and production gradually declined this would not be a worry versus a sudden event.

or you could just kill them all. two guys with an axe each would probably be able to do it within a year or so.

f*ck those stupid animals

goooooooooooooddamn i don't think i should respond this since it increases the amount of pointless posts/arguements but i try to bring something new here then

Are you serious?  You have no idea what you are talking about.  So much water and grain feed go into each pound of beef produced that the calorie ratio is seriously like 1 : 100.  Eating meat is a horribly inefficient to get energy from the sun and into our bodies.

Also lions are mammals.

Haha i meant crodociles with that lion thing.

I admit that i am not entirely sure about my information but i refuse that my posts are null and void because of this! Like i said this is what i have leant and remember so it is possible that i am wrong, yes, since i cannot check my sources easily. So i will admit my mistake if i am guilty of such, to promote discussion.

Let me clarify my argument. My argument is connected to Awakening's post about human's cellulose digestion: (short quote) CELLULOSE makes up plant tissue. The human body can't effectively digest cellulose (at this point in our evolutionary history), meaning the absorption of nutrients from most "vegan diets" is minimal at best.
I am saying that while cattle meat's efficiency isn't quite good (THIS is what i agree on), the amount of wheat/vegetables/etc required is still high due to inefficient cellulose digestion.

 
What i do agree on with you, maladroit, is that it is scientifically proven that cattle's meat efficiency is truly lower than pig's or poultry's so yeah, if western lifestyle is something guilty of then it is to the promoting of the more inefficient meat which is a luxury unfortunately becoming general around the NICs and to-be NICs (or so i understood.) Poultry and pig is still the most common meat produced outside West, like in e.g. Asia (China first comes in mind). So uh, Morality of cattle vs. poultry/swine? I don't think i have seen this issue raised on here yet.

We don't know if animals can feel in the same capacities that we do, though.
Yay for being the most awesome species ever? I don't know where I'm going with this.

 

His answer is already going to be "well this study says they do!" so this isn't really a good line of argument in this specific topic.



Also Doktormartini you eat the same food they put in sea monkey kit pouches.  Thought I would tell you.

His answer is already going to be "well this study says they do!" so this isn't really a good line of argument in this specific topic.



Also Doktormartini you eat the same food they put in sea monkey kit pouches.  Thought I would tell you.

What algae?

A lot of cultures have eaten algae througout history because it is pretty much a whole food (meaning it contains pretty much everything our body needs).

Also a number of animals can feel some of the same things we do (fear, pain...etc).

What algae?

A lot of cultures have eaten algae througout history because it is pretty much a whole food (meaning it contains pretty much everything our body needs).

Also a number of animals can feel some of the same things we do (fear, pain...etc).

Spirulina specifically but whatever, I think anything related to packaged sea monkey kits is probably the worst possible thing you could put in you, those things are ridiculous.  They were invented by the guy who invented x-ray glasses.