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Topic: FFT: War of the Lions (Read 10710 times)

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Feldschlacht IV

#61 October 09, 2007, 07:54:33 pm

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Quote from: maladroithim on October 09, 2007, 07:48:35 pm

This is actually not true at all. In terms of raw power, the second-level classes (Knight, Archer, and Wizards) are probably the best in the game. They pack a punch and are easy to use and you get them right away. You can easily get through the entire game using just those classes. The levelled-up classes represent more focused skillsets and are usually less powerful but more interesting. By combining the abilities of those levelled-up classes you can have some wicked results. For example:

Geomancers are much less physically strong than Monks and Knights, which they are unlocked by, so they seem lame at first. They have a decent magic stat, though, and can equip swords and shields, so if you have a Geomancer equipped with healing or support magic, you'll have an incredibly useful and versataile character. Shields can sometimes give you as much as +50% evade, so you will want to have access to them. Geomancers also get a support ability that boosts attack power, which is an awesome alternative to two swords or both hands (you can keep your shield).

Also, about thieves: They are very weak, but stealing equipment from enemies is just awesome. If you equip them with the Concentrate skill, they have a pretty good chance of success as well. If you steal a warrior's weapon, you render him helpless, and if you steal a wizard's robe, he might not have enough MP to cast any more spells! Bosses always carry awesome equipment too, and in some cases, it is unique. You *will* want to steal items, especially in the second half of the game (which is actually how long the final chapter is). Steal Heart is also devastating, but you don't fight many females, so you might not want to have a male thief.

Not to mention the upper Classes like Calculators, Mimes, and Ninjas can pretty much break the game with little effort if you use them right.

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Sludgelord

#62 October 09, 2007, 08:03:26 pm

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the only thing i thought was really neat about final fantasy tactics was the first chapter. i don't think people really think about it, because it is never really stated (and there are no real MORALS ATTACHED TO THE GAME or anything either) but you are basically the bad guys for the first chapter. you represent the opposite of everything society stands for today: aristocracy, elitism, inequality, class discrimination. usually in games you are these freedom fighters trying to overthrow some corrupt empire, but in fft you are the corrupt empire. it's like playing the french revolution: the game except you are louis xvi and you win. i liked that a lot.

i won't be playing this because i don't have my psp anymore, but did they make that duel with wiegraff any easier? i remember not being able to beat it for like 5 years and having to restart a million times whenever i got to that part.

Barkley, Shut Up and Jam: Gaiden

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Marcus

#63 October 09, 2007, 08:35:33 pm

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The great thing about FFT was that the story kind of transcended the boundaries of the cliche roleplaying storyline as far as EVAEL EMPYRE storylines go. Even after the first chapter when you discovered the evils of the church and everything, you were never ever the actual GOOD guys. I don't think any of the characters actually CARED about saving the world or stopping the badguys. Ramza just wanted his sister back, Delita was power hungry, manipulative, and wanted revenge against the elitists that did him wrong, Agrias wanted to rescue Princess Ovelia... I don't think there was a single character (except maybe Olan who I see as the only upstandingly moral and GOOD character in the game) that actually did what they did for reasons other than their own.

They tried to expand this in Final Fantasy 12 by having the main characters simply be victims of the war instead of LOL REBELS TAKE DOWN THE EMPIRE... but it didn't work nearly as well as this game.

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NightBlade

#64 October 09, 2007, 09:45:12 pm

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So how bad is the american version's slow down, might I ask? It just seems like it would be slightly irritating.

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maladroithim

#65 October 09, 2007, 09:50:20 pm

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Quote from: NightBlade on October 09, 2007, 09:45:12 pm

So how bad is the american version's slow down, might I ask? It just seems like it would be slightly irritating.

It's really bad and is definitely the worst part of the game.

Curiously, the really flashy abilities, like summons, don't lag at all. I stopped really noticing after a few hours, but at first, I really dreaded casting a CURE spell because it would slow the game down so much. The worst part is that the sound effects *don't* lag, so they won't cue up with the explosions and all that.

The core game runs very well and has a better framerate than I recall it having on PSX, and it only lags when you cast magic or whatever.

I'd say that it's much less annoying than the completely unintelligible text in the original!

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headphonics

#66 October 09, 2007, 10:01:13 pm

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Quote from: Chef Boyardee on October 09, 2007, 08:03:26 pm

the only thing i thought was really neat about final fantasy tactics was the first chapter. i don't think people really think about it, because it is never really stated (and there are no real MORALS ATTACHED TO THE GAME or anything either) but you are basically the bad guys for the first chapter. you represent the opposite of everything society stands for today: aristocracy, elitism, inequality, class discrimination. usually in games you are these freedom fighters trying to overthrow some corrupt empire, but in fft you are the corrupt empire. it's like playing the french revolution: the game except you are louis xvi and you win. i liked that a lot.

i won't be playing this because i don't have my psp anymore, but did they make that duel with wiegraff any easier? i remember not being able to beat it for like 5 years and having to restart a million times whenever i got to that part.

yeah, i noticed this too. like from the onset of chapter 1 you are basically the few fortunate in a sea of unfortunate. the funny thing is though, even if there were people like ARGATH or whatever, and ramza's brothers, who were trying to perpetuate the system, a lot of the people in the story in such positions mostly just seemed like they were kind of haplessly born into it just like any peasant would be. even if you are the bad guys doing bad things, they didn't really seem like they were especially bad except for a few characters. mostly it just seemed like they were very ignorant and weren't aware that what they were doing was so fundamentally horrible/unfair.

also i am really having a hard time deciding how i want to set my party up. i have a caster who's a black mage/time mage, and it's working out very well, and my healer is a white mage/mystic, but i'm thinking of switching her back to just being a white mage so i can have item useage back, because mystic abilities don't seem that great, and the only reason i'm really using her as one is so i can see what class comes afterwards. i'm thinking i'll leave ramza as a monk because geomancer seems weak without putting a lot of time into it, and knight's mitigation is good, but its damage is pretty awful, and i like that as a monk he has better range, still wears heavy armor, does like 3x more damage, and can attack from a range too. i guess i'd miss out on a shield and being able to destroy enemy armor/weapons, but still. but then it's tempting to go for samurai/ninja since they sound like they would be fundamentally more powerful classes. so right now i am thinking monk/archer/dragoon (i like this one so far!)/time and black mage/white mage. but in the future i would maybe try to turn monk/dragoon into samurai/ninja or some shit, if they can do anywhere near as much damage.

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maladroithim

#67 October 10, 2007, 03:28:46 am

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Quote from: bazookatooth on October 09, 2007, 10:01:13 pm

also i am really having a hard time deciding how i want to set my party up. i have a caster who's a black mage/time mage, and it's working out very well, and my healer is a white mage/mystic, but i'm thinking of switching her back to just being a white mage so i can have item useage back, because mystic abilities don't seem that great, and the only reason i'm really using her as one is so i can see what class comes afterwards. i'm thinking i'll leave ramza as a monk because geomancer seems weak without putting a lot of time into it, and knight's mitigation is good, but its damage is pretty awful, and i like that as a monk he has better range, still wears heavy armor, does like 3x more damage, and can attack from a range too. i guess i'd miss out on a shield and being able to destroy enemy armor/weapons, but still. but then it's tempting to go for samurai/ninja since they sound like they would be fundamentally more powerful classes. so right now i am thinking monk/archer/dragoon (i like this one so far!)/time and black mage/white mage. but in the future i would maybe try to turn monk/dragoon into samurai/ninja or some shit, if they can do anywhere near as much damage.

This whole paragraph is why people think that Final Fantasy Tactics is just the coolest game ever.

It's a really good idea to give a Monk Heavy Armor or Shield abilities, because with not even being to equip helmets, their HP is embarassing. It's really their only downfall, and their abilities are awesome.

Ninja and samurai are really cool, too. I prefer samurai because they are more interesting, but ninja are definitely the strongest attack class in the game.

Yeah, Mystics are terrible.

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headphonics

#68 October 10, 2007, 05:57:09 am

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ninja and samurai it is, then! thanks, it's just that i didn't want to commit a bunch of time to jobs that blew, and it's difficult to find a resource online that really discusses the jobs' strengths and weaknesses at length. but i kept ramza as a knight so long so i could learn heavy armor, and i gotta tell you it made him as a monk MUCH more durable/realistic as a class i really throw up in the thick of things. it was totally worth it. would it be better to shift him to shield? i kind of thought that monks couldn't use shields anymore than they could use weapons, since they use both fists to fight, but if they can, then maybe that'd be a good idea. i still have my white mage using a shield, and she blocks a ton. so i guess i'd give up hp/armor or whatever for the ability to block. actually i'll probably stick with heavy armor, as it cost like 500 while the shield ability costs like half that, so i'm assuming the shield is just less effective than 2 pieces of heavy armor. i wouldn't want to give up health and armor for a chance to block, anyway.

also... pummel. i can't find anything that talks about this ability, but does it have a damage range where other attacks don't? it SAYS it'll do a definite amount of damage on screen (usually 80 or so), but it often not only exceeds 100 by quite a bit when hitting, but also fairly often hits for like 30. i've stopped using it unless i really have to, simply because i don't fully understand how it works.

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Marcus

#69 October 10, 2007, 07:04:05 am

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I don't think anyone truly understands pummel. I think it takes a basic medium range of damage from the lowest possible amount to the highest and deals it randomly. I guess it's kind of like homage to Dungeons and Dragon's Monk's multi-strike. You have a chance of doing a crapload of damage but just as equal chance of barely doing any.

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local_dunce

#70 October 10, 2007, 11:31:38 am

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oh man I blew this game... I totally didn't think that I should probably train up more than just 3 characters. I'm still really early into the game so it's not a big deal but I just did the fight after you see Weigraff for the first time and the difficulty shot up making it harder to train new recruits from level 1.

Currently my party is looking something like this:

My Main character I am training solely as a knight right now. I wanted to get Rend Weapon/Armor/Shield and now I'm going to work on making sure I can get the "Equip Heavy Armor/Swords" because I have no doubt they will be PRETTY HANDY later in the game. But after that I'm considering if I should just jump him straight to Samurai which looks like the next step up in the powerhouse route. Then Fell Knight I guess but I have no information on what this class actually is but it looks like the ULTIMATE GOAL or whatever.

The only other hybrids I am really wanting to train up are Time Mage/Black Mage and Possibly an Archer/Thief/Ninja.

Lastly my other characters I am pretty unsure of what to do with, I am training a Monk who I think I will just stick out as a Monk full stop. Lifefont and the first strike skill are pretty good for her so far but I haven't really spent any JP on her combat skills.

And then just basic White Mage and Black Mage and Knight characters.

EDIT: What the hell is an onion knight and is it worth me finding out?

now is the winter of our discontent

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Severus

#71 October 10, 2007, 12:02:07 pm

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Quote from: bunnymgilkgwr on October 10, 2007, 11:31:38 am

EDIT: What the hell is an onion knight and is it worth me finding out?

I did a description on the previous page, it's not worth using till it's at job level 8 (with Onion Equipment)

Just beat Limberry battles, there are three chances to get Ultima there now (there's a battle against an old friend in between the last two fights, with some Ultima casting mates). Which made me think, on the multiplayer levels, can you learn Ultima/Zodiac during a battle/co-op, and if so do you keep it afterwards (I know JP is kept). If so it makes teaching 21 out of 24 characters (Byblos, Worker/Construct 8 and Boco can't learn it) Zodiac much easier. If so then in theory learning the -aja spells can be done via multiplayer as well. (-aja spells and summons past Bahamut can be learnt blue magic style too)

Last Edit: October 10, 2007, 07:54:24 pm by Severus

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local_dunce

#72 October 10, 2007, 01:50:04 pm

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Okay so I have been using this job tree as pretty much the only info I have on the game:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/portable/psp/file/937312/50312

Am I right in thinking that to get Samurai I need to have Level 4 Knight, Level 5 Monk AND Level 2 Dragoon or do I only need to get one of them? I think I need to put some serious training in.

Last Edit: October 10, 2007, 01:51:47 pm by bunnymgilkgwr

now is the winter of our discontent

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Severus

#73 October 10, 2007, 02:53:19 pm

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Quote from: bunnymgilkgwr on October 10, 2007, 01:50:04 pm

Okay so I have been using this job tree as pretty much the only info I have on the game:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/portable/psp/file/937312/50312

Am I right in thinking that to get Samurai I need to have Level 4 Knight, Level 5 Monk AND Level 2 Dragoon or do I only need to get one of them? I think I need to put some serious training in.

You need all.

The Dark Knight (Fell Knight is wrong) is a real pain to get.
This is the best place for stuff like that, http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=937312&topic=35466658 it also contains details of new events and how to trigger them.

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local_dunce

#74 October 10, 2007, 03:45:42 pm

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I'm not finding training that hard, just tedious, I don't think Dark Knight would be too hard to get overall, I'm pretty much just equipping JP Boost, Surrounding an enemy, pounding the shit out of it, using lots of passive skills and healing it when it gets low. I've been getting 500+ JP per character per fight.

now is the winter of our discontent

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Severus

#75 October 10, 2007, 07:48:03 pm

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Quote from: bunnymgilkgwr on October 10, 2007, 03:45:42 pm

I'm not finding training that hard, just tedious, I don't think Dark Knight would be too hard to get overall, I'm pretty much just equipping JP Boost, Surrounding an enemy, pounding the shit out of it, using lots of passive skills and healing it when it gets low. I've been getting 500+ JP per character per fight.

It's easy work but it is indeed tedious, the lag doesn't help. At least focus is a very short animation with no lag.

Now that I have it, the other regulars will soon get it (just need Black Mage mastering) and I they'll get the spillover JP from me using Dark Knight when they get it so it's all good. At least it didn't take as long as it did when I played it in the Japanese version (since I didn't know the requirements till late game). They have low HP and speed, but they have the highest attack in the game (and useful abilities including the ability to get Move/Jump +3 for the gender that didn't get them before, an ability to increase HP by 20% and another to +50% attack, -50% defense)

Last Edit: October 10, 2007, 07:53:20 pm by Severus

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The Dude

#76 October 10, 2007, 08:30:07 pm

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Me and caminator18 are playing Tactics now.

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Ræn

#77 October 10, 2007, 09:18:11 pm

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I consider the original Final Fantasy Tactics my favorite game ever, and I'm a bit worried about this version due to:

The slowdown. It sounds really annoying and almost enjoyment ruining.
Sound problem. I've heard that the sound quality is worse than the original game.
The translation. I know most people love it, but some changed such as names sound very annoying.
The fact that it's on a handheld. I fucking hate playing games on tiny screens, and I'm worried about that with this remake.

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maladroithim

#78 October 10, 2007, 09:55:27 pm

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Quote from: Ræn on October 10, 2007, 09:18:11 pm

I consider the original Final Fantasy Tactics my favorite game ever, and I'm a bit worried about this version due to:

Okay, so I'll address your points!

Quote from: Ræn on October 10, 2007, 09:18:11 pm

The slowdown. It sounds really annoying and almost enjoyment ruining.

It's definitely the worst part of the game. The core engine, though, runs much faster, so when you are actually interacting (navigating menus, etc) it's actually better. So you win some and you lose some. I'd prefer the game didn't slowdown, but after the initial shock of OMG THAT IS SLOOOOW, I didn't much care.

Quote from: Ræn on October 10, 2007, 09:18:11 pm

Sound problem. I've heard that the sound quality is worse than the original game.

The sounds are mostly the same, but a few -- the death scream, the sound of wind howling, the dragoon jumping -- are really bad. It doesn't bother me since I keep the volume down on handhelds most of the time (lol pooping at work).

Quote from: Ræn on October 10, 2007, 09:18:11 pm

The translation. I know most people love it, but some changed such as names sound very annoying.

GOD I love the translation. I finally can make sense of the plot and the writing is pretty snappy. It has this air of being intentionally cheesy, which I dig. The changed names are almost all much worse -- Algus has a lisp now, apparently. During cutscenes, though, you will *love* the changes.

Quote from: Ræn on October 10, 2007, 09:18:11 pm

The fact that it's on a handheld. I fucking hate playing games on tiny screens, and I'm worried about that with this remake.

I love handhelds and the PSP has a great screen so I don't know what to tell you.

Also it has pre-rendered cutscenes and they are all pretty awesome. A hybrid between heavily-styled 3D animation and straight-ahead paint animating with really detailed backdrops. I wish they'd make a game that looked like this.

So yeah, this is my top handheld game right now and I love it to pieces. If you can't get past its cosmetic shortcomings, though, you're out of luck.

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headphonics

#79 October 10, 2007, 11:20:18 pm

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the cutscenes are nice, i guess, but i'm not in love with them or anything. to me, it just looks like they applied some kind of cheesy filter to otherwise regular cartoon cutscenes. they definitely look better than their original 3d counterparts or whatever, though, and not just because the 3d looks like shit now, but i also just think that 2d cutscenes sort of just fit the game more. what makes them good, more than that they look nice, is just that they're well drawn/animated versions of the environments and characters themselves, and the art direction in the original was good enough that it's still pretty cool to look at.

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NightBlade

#80 October 11, 2007, 01:03:14 am

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Quote from: angry black man on October 10, 2007, 07:04:05 am

I don't think anyone truly understands pummel. I think it takes a basic medium range of damage from the lowest possible amount to the highest and deals it randomly. I guess it's kind of like homage to Dungeons and Dragon's Monk's multi-strike. You have a chance of doing a crapload of damage but just as equal chance of barely doing any.

On the PS1 version, I remember using timed button presses to get additional effects out of attacks.

Throw stone's knockback was fun for knocking someone off of a tall building, as was dash's similiar effect. Pummel however; had a similiar effect I think. Could be purely a placebo in my eyes but whenever I mashed the circle button when the animation went off; the damage was almost always higher.

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