Topic: Israel bombs Gaza, kills 170 (Read 10359 times)

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try talking about it rather than yelling k thx i was simply trying to find out more originally
Last Edit: January 06, 2009, 09:14:32 am by Afura
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yeah uh Truth screaming at the computer doesnt convince people you're right even when you make some good points, explaining why your points are valid is. thats the whole purpose of a discussion on a forum, isnt it?
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Basically I just wanted an intelligent person to respond, debate a lil, lay out some facts for me or something. Also the situation isn't just BLACK AND WHITE, what an ignorant thing to say. I've talked to both Palestinians and Israelis and both at least admit that. I've read alot of newspapers saying Hamas originally broke the ceasefire by attacking Israel during negotiation, they had been firing missiles for the past few years into cities forcing the civilians into hiding. Am I mistaken to think they broke the ceasefire?
Last Edit: January 06, 2009, 09:16:18 am by Afura
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more probably with a suicide bomb judging by THOSE names ¬¬

..Those are some of the most intelligent scholars not only within islam but within great areas of knowledge, they're typically invited to speak for the greatest benefactors, Shaykh Hamza Yusuf was even invited to give direction to George Bush and several members within the English Parliament about the middle east and muslim world.
He actually sent George Bush a letter after september 11th saying how much of an outrage this was, and that the onus was on George Bush not to go into a war that they might regret more than the vietnam war.. Bush didnt take his advice.
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How would you suggest they fight back against an imperialist aggressor who is starving them and committing apartheid?

fatah is in the pocket of the idf completely. Fatah undermines Hamas so they can rule over whatever blasted chunk of Gaza is left.

i realize it's rather hard to specifically target military or government personnel, however randomly firing rockets into, like you said, one of the most densely packed areas of the world is pretty irresponsible. specifically attacking civilians (like suicide bombings on a bus or w/e) is cowardly and is no better than what the israelis are doing with their indiscriminate bombings.
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Basically I just wanted an intelligent person to respond, debate a lil, lay out some facts for me or something. Also the situation isn't just BLACK AND WHITE, what an ignorant thing to say. I've talked to both Palestinians and Israelis and both at least admit that. I've read alot of newspapers saying Hamas originally broke the ceasefire by attacking Israel during negotiation, they had been firing missiles for the past few years into cities forcing the civilians into hiding. Am I mistaken to think they broke the ceasefire?

no, israel without a doubt broke the ceasefire.

Quote from: wiki
On 19 June 2008, a six-month Egyptian-brokered cease-fire agreement went into effect between Hamas and Israel.[52] On June 24, 2008 Israel raided Nablus (West Bank) killing two Palestinians, including a commander of Islamic Jihad (an organization independent of Hamas).[53] Later, on the same day, three Qassam rockets were fired into Sderot, Israel, causing two minor injuries. Islamic Jihad, claimed responsibility, stating that this action was in response to the Israeli raid. [54] Hamas subsequently pressured the group into abiding by the ceasefire.[55] On 26 June, rockets were fired by Fatah, a Hamas rival, elements of which sometimes collaborate with Israel.
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What i'd like to know is why the Palestinians are still refugees for almost 3 generations now.  It seems to me like the arab countries are just keeping them there so they actually cause problems and so they can look miserable and oppressed. Do you not realize that the area is SURRROUNDED by arab countries with money and that they could easily accommodate all the palestinian refugees? If this happened, probably 95% of the problems would be solved, with 5% palestinians who actually wanted their land back.

You guys keep yelling OPRESSION and ITS THEIR LAND but hey, wasn't the arab nations' original intent back in '67 to KILL ALL JEWS DESTROY ISRAEL?? Guess what, Israel won the war and got land! Why should they give it back? That's what I don't understand. When something like this happens to european nations, everyone seems to shrug and not care. Let's bring up an example here...when nazi germany was defeated in wwii, eastern Prussia was divided among the soviet union and Poland.  Do you know what happened to the original german populace? They were almost all evacuated back to germany. That was around 2 million people.  That native german population has lived there for HUNDREDS of years, but no one seems to be screaming about ATROCITIES or how the poor people are getting kicked out of their country. There are honestly far more examples exactly like this and I really don’t see why the arab countries can’t accommodate the Palestinians, who would not only get a higher standard of living but also end almost all of the violence around the area. Having refugees for so many generations is fucking ridiculous, and it seems pretty clear to me they’re doing it on purpose. 

Also, when the georgian conflict happened, russia not only invaded georgia, but they completely destroyed all of their infrastructure and fleet,  and there weren’t nearly as many people who cared. China? Nope, not my problem.  How come there are so many protests when Israel does something 'wrong' but when far larger humanitarian crises such as darfur happen, not many people seem to care?? I’m not saying that people SHOULDN’T PROTEST when something like this happens, but it seems that Israel gets FAR MORE ATTENTION over other countries.
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Quote
What i'd like to know is why the Palestinians are still refugees for almost 3 generations now.  It seems to me like the arab countries are just keeping them there so they actually cause problems and so they can look miserable and oppressed. Do you not realize that the area is SURRROUNDED by arab countries with money and that they could easily accommodate all the palestinian refugees? If this happened, probably 95% of the problems would be solved, with 5% palestinians who actually wanted their land back.

are you fucking kidding me, this is like inri level trolling.
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haagaggagagahahha that entire post is the funniest shit no one reply to it you'll corrupt it.
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wow.
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What i'd like to know is why the Palestinians are still refugees for almost 3 generations now.  It seems to me like the arab countries are just keeping them there so they actually cause problems and so they can look miserable and oppressed. Do you not realize that the area is SURRROUNDED by arab countries with money and that they could easily accommodate all the palestinian refugees? If this happened, probably 95% of the problems would be solved, with 5% palestinians who actually wanted their land back.

You guys keep yelling OPRESSION and ITS THEIR LAND but hey, wasn't the arab nations' original intent back in '67 to KILL ALL JEWS DESTROY ISRAEL?? Guess what, Israel won the war and got land! Why should they give it back? That's what I don't understand. When something like this happens to european nations, everyone seems to shrug and not care. Let's bring up an example here...when nazi germany was defeated in wwii, eastern Prussia was divided among the soviet union and Poland.  Do you know what happened to the original german populace? They were almost all evacuated back to germany. That was around 2 million people.  That native german population has lived there for HUNDREDS of years, but no one seems to be screaming about ATROCITIES or how the poor people are getting kicked out of their country. There are honestly far more examples exactly like this and I really don’t see why the arab countries can’t accommodate the Palestinians, who would not only get a higher standard of living but also end almost all of the violence around the area. Having refugees for so many generations is fucking ridiculous, and it seems pretty clear to me they’re doing it on purpose. 

Also, when the georgian conflict happened, russia not only invaded georgia, but they completely destroyed all of their infrastructure and fleet,  and there weren’t nearly as many people who cared. China? Nope, not my problem.  How come there are so many protests when Israel does something 'wrong' but when far larger humanitarian crises such as darfur happen, not many people seem to care?? I’m not saying that people SHOULDN’T PROTEST when something like this happens, but it seems that Israel gets FAR MORE ATTENTION over other countries.


you have such a shockingly ignorant view of the situation it's embarrassing.
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Surely the surrounding wealthy Arab countries could let a certain amount of the refugees through their border though?
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Surely the surrounding wealthy Arab countries could let a certain amount of the refugees through their border though?
Nobody wants to take responsibility over the strip. One of Israel's biggest mistakes was taking over the strip along with Sinai.
During the peace agreement with Egypt, Gaza was supposed to be returned, but Egypt basically went "lol, you can have it".
That's why they kept quiet for so long about the attack, so they won't be dragged into this and forced to open borders
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So basically, the Isrealites are like the North Americans, and the the Arabs are like the Aboriginals?
what
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At least 30 people were killed and 55 injured when Israeli artillery shells landed outside a United Nations-run school in Gaza, UN officials have said.

BBC News

Now, I won't say anything about how horrible this is as I don't think it's necessary, but can you imagine a worse target to hit from the international relations and PR point of view? Like, alright, you hit a civilian target, that's bad. If it's, let's say, a hospital, it's horrible. These guys just hit a school, that was in a refugee camp, run by the fucking United Nations. They had been given the coordinates for targets like this by the UN to _not_ hit them in accident, and guess what? This wasn't even an accident:

Quote
The Israeli military said that, according to initial checks, its soldiers had come under mortar fire from militants inside the school.
"The force responded with mortars at the source of fire."

I can see the smile on Ban Ki-moon's face.
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So basically, the Isrealites are like the North Americans, and the the Arabs are like the Aboriginals?

what the fuck are you talking about
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:shrugs: i think hamas and israel are just quantitively different, and hamas just doesnt have the ability to murder as many jews as jews have the ability to butcher hundreds of brown children. that said, fuck hamas and fuck political islam. i dont think normal palestinian folk have anything to win in this situation. while silly hamas middle class ideologues order the throwing of qassams and palestinians to die for their identity and their nationhood, normal folks get the bombs. for socialists like me, i would rather see palestinians hiding in their basements than going to war for the ideas of nationalists.

anyway, afura is pretty silly. if someone "attacked my country i would bomb universities heh" its a terrible opinion because you see the question as country vs country. it has never been country versus country, it has always been politicians and bosses pittying poor folks against poor folks. people who cannot see beyond their borders are morally and politically bankrupt.
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So basically, the Isrealites are like the North Americans, and the the Arabs are like the Aboriginals?
[/quote ahahahah good troll gentlewoman
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I was going by that quote on the first page with the whole "they took our land" thing.  I really have no idea here.  I mean I know about the jews thinking Isreal is theirs because it was the promised land and all that, but that's about all I know.
what
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Now, I won't say anything about how horrible this is as I don't think it's necessary, but can you imagine a worse target to hit from the international relations and PR point of view? Like, alright, you hit a civilian target, that's bad. If it's, let's say, a hospital, it's horrible. These guys just hit a school, that was in a refugee camp, run by the fucking United Nations. They had been given the coordinates for targets like this by the UN to _not_ hit them in accident, and guess what? This wasn't even an accident:

I can see the smile on Ban Ki-moon's face.

It's not the first time...
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