Topic: Boy, 15, gets 60 years for StL County sex attack of girl, 6 (Read 4197 times)

  • Avatar of Ragnar
  • Worthless Protoplasm
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Jun 15, 2002
  • Posts: 6536
60 years is too long for any juvenile. we don't know anything about his environment: how the kid was raised, why hed do something like this, etc. there is a reason there are protections for children in the system, because children aren't just born with fucked up values in their heads. sure, the report tells us he feels no remorse, so obviously he's been fucked up somehow.

edit:

the mere fact that this guy is so fucked up should not merit the response "LOCK HIM UP FOREVER" but "HOW THE FUCK DOES THIS HAPPEN TO A THIRTEEN YEAR OLD?". locking this kid up for 60 years puts a band aid on a festering wound. psychoanalyze this fuck and figure out what is wrong.

i am not saying he should be slapped on the wrist, this kid needs severe mental help and needs A LOT of time in a prison system. i'm not one to decide how long. but 60 years is not worth taxpayer's money. and it wastes another life.

this

Wow I didn't want to read the details but I still stand my decision, if anything we'll find the evil gene in this kid

I mean it's severely fucked up but I don't know how you get that fucked up only being alive for 13 years
Last Edit: November 17, 2007, 02:22:48 am by Ragnar
http://djsaint-hubert.bandcamp.com/
 
  • Avatar of Ghost_Aspergers
  • The man in the woods.
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Jul 1, 2003
  • Posts: 2752
I would say what this girl did was much worse than sexual assault.
and

Quote
She had half an ear torn off, a lascerated liver, a skull fracture and bruises from the top of her head to her thighs.

And sorry, but some fates are worse than death. This girl has to live with what happened to her... and having known several victims of sexual assault from an early age, they can get really fucked up. Take my sister for example. She will sleep with anyone. She will run away... meet some niggers on the corner and live with them for months until she gets bored and comes back home. She cannot keep a job for more than 2 weeks without freaking out. She goes into these intense panic attacks and starts acting out... something that used to land her in psychiatric custody for weeks on end (which is no longer an option seeing as how she is over 18). She flunked out of community college. She is a complete invalid. She cannot live without constant supervision. The assault fucked her head up. How she hasn't committed suicide yet is beyond me. Judging by what she's been saying.. she is heading there though seeing as how her current meds are causing fatigue and rapid weight gain. The girl is a wreck... and it's hard to console someone who has been raped. Death is a quick release... but a brutal sexual assault is going to impact that girl's life in the worst ways.

To be honest, I would have felt better about this if she was killed at the end. But then again, she might be the rare case that can actually deal with it.

Quote
We should just cut out the middle man and catapult this dumb kid straight into the sun; at least that's straight forward, and would probably cost the tax payers less!

I'm pretty sure it costs more to kill them (Millions) than to keep them alive.
Last Edit: November 17, 2007, 03:21:57 am by Chainer
  • Avatar of Zeratul
  • Sick son of a bitch
  • PipPip
  • Group: Member
  • Joined: May 10, 2003
  • Posts: 292
Zeratul: You believe that if a person might destroy the life of a person (with intention?) then he deserves to rot in hell. Why doesn't all other rapist get life sentence? Why don't everyone who murders someone get life sentence? For instance there was a girl at about age 8 i think and she took her father's gun with her one day and killed one of her classmates. She should get life sentence right? I pretty sure she's out now and haven't killed another person, but you believe that she should get life sentence.
I don't preside over cases. I am not a judge. I have my feelings on these matters and I have the benefit of not having a robe to uphold. Obviously judges (ideally) do not work off of their feelings and so forth and instead uphold the relevant laws (with some room left in for them to move at their discretion). If I am not mistaken, however, the worst sentences are meant to be reserved to those who willingly and in a complete sane state of mind committed a heinous crime (which he did) and demonstrate no remorse (which he has). It is in that spirit in which I wholeheartedly do not disagree with the long sentencing (although if it makes you feel any better, such a sentence probably won't hold up under appeal).
I don't know enough about the girl's case to comment on that. Maybe it was an accident, maybe since she's 8 she didn't realize the consequences of her actions. I don't know enough to make a judgment. I don't think that each and every murder/rape is justified by a long sentence, but based on what I know about this case, I don't feel sorry for the boy.

Quote
PS, the girl WAS six. Not IS six. He WAS 13 when he committed the crime. Not fifteen.
That was pointed out earlier and I admitted my oversight. I'm not sure what you're trying to prove by bringing it up again.

Quote
Zeratul is 23. Zeratul has been alive for just over a third of his sentence.

Zeratul doesn't quite understand that if his sentence runs through he will be 75 years old when he leaves prison.
Zeratul understands quite well how to add and subtract numbers and therefore Zeratul is quite aware that this kid will be white haired, arthritic, and lacking knowledge of a real life beyond the prison cell if he even lives long enough to live out his sentence. Zeratul just doesn't happen to think that this is the worst of atrocities given that the girl he kidnapped and physically and sexually abused is going to be screwed for life in ways that Zeratul will not pretend to be able to predict, except of course to note that it will not be good.

Look, if you want my honest opinion, I really don't care about this boy or his sentence. I don't disagree with his sentence. If he'd gotten less I wouldn't be out on the St Louis courthouse steps protesting or something.
I'm mostly annoyed by the larger issue wherein I know and hear too many people who read or listen to a story like this and  their first concern -- their FIRST concern -- is the comfort and rights of the criminal. What about the victim? The criminal has all kinds of appeals he can run and in all honesty he probably won't serve more than maybe 20 years, if that -- people have gotten less time for more horrible crimes. There is almost nothing the 6 year old girl will be able to do to avoid the effect this traumatic experience is going to have on her life. Her relationship with other people will almost certainly be affected. She may never know intimacy. I mean, of course, these are suppositions -- some people go through this type of event and come out just fine. But chances are good that she will not.
I mean, just look at the posts in this topic. Nearly everyone is largely concerned with the criminal and his rights, as if the crime he committed against a 6 year old girl was just a footnote or something. Chances are good that she is going to be fucked up for life, and I'm supposed to be up in arms because the perpetrator might be fucked for life too?
I had a girlfriend who was raped from 2 to 12. That shit fucks with your ability to live a decent life. I don't CARE if the criminal EVER gets out of jail.
Last Edit: November 17, 2007, 03:50:54 am by Zeratul

Those who can, pay. Those who can't, delay.
  • Avatar of Sarah
  • Blackman the Game: 0% complete
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Feb 7, 2004
  • Posts: 2401
That was pointed out earlier and I admitted my oversight. I'm not sure what you're trying to prove by bringing it up again.
oh sorry. trying to point out that i don't read threads. i just noticed it in a quote.
  • Developer of "Eternal Conflict" Series
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Sep 19, 2006
  • Posts: 784
One. Sick. Fuck.

A similar thing happened to me (force to give head when I was about 5 or 6, to someone about 20)  So I sympathize with the girl...  hell, If I ever saw the fuck that did that to me, I'd fucking kill him.
  • Avatar of Von Woofen
  • Super Saiyan Sam
  • PipPip
  • Group: Member
  • Joined: Dec 19, 2004
  • Posts: 289
Hmmm, well  I think everyone agrees he should be punished, and juvenile detention or whatever is clearly not adequate, but putting him in jail at that age, he will most likely be raped himself I think and become a man in prison, so it doesn't matter really how long you keep him there because I don't think he will ever be able to function in society after going to jail at 15. I believe he probably would have ended up back in jail many times and hurt more people if he was let out after that experience, so really there is no good way to deal with this situation!
  • Developer of "Eternal Conflict" Series
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Sep 19, 2006
  • Posts: 784
...I mean, of course, these are suppositions -- some people go through this type of event and come out just fine. But chances are good that she will not....

I remained pretty much "normal" until about 5 years ago (15) when I realized what rape was, I got depressed, and I'm back to normal now except for one thing.  I can't stand being touched by guys...  except maybe a handshake or high-five.  Anything more, and I freak out.  My friends don't know this though, and they probably wont.  Either way, I actually passed out because one of them tried to hug me.

I'm a guy btw, and this hasn't effected my dating life except I don't EVER want a blowjob.
  • Avatar of TheCreeper
  • Official Cow And K00l Maen
  • Pip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Mar 5, 2002
  • Posts: 143
Hey, read the fucking article.

It doesn't say a 15 year old attacked a 6 year old.
The kid was fucking 13 at the time. Therefore, the girl would be 8 right now.

60 years is way to fucking excessive.
  • old skool
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Jan 7, 2003
  • Posts: 780
I don't feel like typing a bunch of shit, but I agree entirely with Dada.
  • Group: Guest
I'm not going to remain silent just because you don't like what I have to say. The fact of the matter is that the subject was brought up and all I did was express an opinion on the subject which you didn't like. I don't care whether you agree with what I have to say, and I don't think that it's important to begin with. I'm entitled to state my opinion and I resent the implication that if I don't express a whiny boo-hoo sentiment towards the boy's sentence for his crime then my opinion has no right to be expressed.
I'm not SILENCING YOUR OPINION you dolt. There's just no point in saying HEH HE DOESN'T DESERVE ANY LESS HES GOT NO REMORSE because you don't know that.
  • Avatar of Zeratul
  • Sick son of a bitch
  • PipPip
  • Group: Member
  • Joined: May 10, 2003
  • Posts: 292
I'm not SILENCING YOUR OPINION you dolt. There's just no point in saying HEH HE DOESN'T DESERVE ANY LESS HES GOT NO REMORSE because you don't know that.
As opposed to the mountainous load of information you've got over me which leads to your conclusion.

Those who can, pay. Those who can't, delay.
  • Group: Guest
What's my conclusion?
  • Avatar of Zeratul
  • Sick son of a bitch
  • PipPip
  • Group: Member
  • Joined: May 10, 2003
  • Posts: 292
I believe it ran somewhere along the lines of "60 years is an unreasonable sentence for the crime."
You have as much information to determine that as I have to determine my opinion.

Those who can, pay. Those who can't, delay.
  • Group: Guest
I know what crime he's committed?
Last Edit: November 17, 2007, 06:52:12 am by Drule
  • Avatar of JoshAP2007
  • Electronica junkie.
  • Group: Member
  • Joined: Nov 24, 2005
  • Posts: 56
I think he deserve all that he got.
Last Edit: November 17, 2007, 07:32:04 am by JoshAP2007
Milk's Favorite Cookie: Oreo.
  • Hero for hire.
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Jul 18, 2005
  • Posts: 60
I think a sentence of 60 years is just way too brash.

Like it has been pointed out before, we've seen much larger crime committees get much smaller sentences. Personally, I think it would fuck him up even more by making him live in the same cramped space for 60 years. He won't be able to experience all of this world has to offer, nor any of the psychiatric help it can offer him.

By and by, he is a fucked up individual, but he is still human nonetheless. Lower the sentence by at least half and help this screwed up kid.
  • Avatar of LORd
  • SantaMan.EXE
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Jul 28, 2002
  • Posts: 1219
I know what crime he's committed?
I think Zeratul's point was that from the limited information we have, you're assuming the best of the criminal, while Zeratul's assuming the worst - with "best" and "worst" being relative here, of course: one side puts emphasis on the young age and immaturity of the boy and the other at his glaring inhumanity during court proceedings, which really is the root of this conflict. The way I see it both viewpoints are equally valid from our position so I'd prefer this meta-debate to end so we can, you know, discuss the issue.

That being said
I'm mostly annoyed by the larger issue wherein I know and hear too many people who read or listen to a story like this and  their first concern -- their FIRST concern -- is the comfort and rights of the criminal. What about the victim? The criminal has all kinds of appeals he can run and in all honesty he probably won't serve more than maybe 20 years, if that -- people have gotten less time for more horrible crimes. There is almost nothing the 6 year old girl will be able to do to avoid the effect this traumatic experience is going to have on her life. Her relationship with other people will almost certainly be affected. She may never know intimacy. I mean, of course, these are suppositions -- some people go through this type of event and come out just fine. But chances are good that she will not.
I mean, just look at the posts in this topic. Nearly everyone is largely concerned with the criminal and his rights, as if the crime he committed against a 6 year old girl was just a footnote or something. Chances are good that she is going to be fucked up for life, and I'm supposed to be up in arms because the perpetrator might be fucked for life too?
I had a girlfriend who was raped from 2 to 12. That shit fucks with your ability to live a decent life. I don't CARE if the criminal EVER gets out of jail.
I think you're assuming things here - fatty did word poorly his first few posts in this thread, which probably was the thing that brought about this fiasco, but I don't think any one of us wasn't repulsed by the boy's actions. It's just that his sentence is really the only thing up for debate in that piece of news and truth be told I prefer where we're at now infinitely to yet another thread of humapnity has hit a n ew low...........

But back on topic with me! I am of the opinion that the boy must have gone through some seriously deep shit to be capable of doing what he did to that girl, and as such I find 50+ years without parole pretty excessive. As stated earlier though it's not a very necessary concern since this sentence most definitely won't hold under appeal so here's to hoping that both he and his victim get the help and understanding they need.

Makes me wonder, though. Why did it take two years after the crime to sentence him? Has the girl been in a coma or shock or something or equally uncapable of telling information about her assailant, or did the legal proceedings really take this long with such a glaring crime?
  • Avatar of Camlon
  • Got you`
  • Group: Member
  • Joined: Jan 25, 2005
  • Posts: 72
I don't preside over cases. I am not a judge. I have my feelings on these matters and I have the benefit of not having a robe to uphold. Obviously judges (ideally) do not work off of their feelings and so forth and instead uphold the relevant laws (with some room left in for them to move at their discretion). If I am not mistaken, however, the worst sentences are meant to be reserved to those who willingly and in a complete sane state of mind committed a heinous crime (which he did) and demonstrate no remorse (which he has). It is in that spirit in which I wholeheartedly do not disagree with the long sentencing (although if it makes you feel any better, such a sentence probably won't hold up under appeal).
I don't know enough about the girl's case to comment on that. Maybe it was an accident, maybe since she's 8 she didn't realize the consequences of her actions. I don't know enough to make a judgment. I don't think that each and every murder/rape is justified by a long sentence, but based on what I know about this case, I don't feel sorry for the boy
After your new definition then teenagers who beat up other children on the street should also get 60 years. You must remember that they didn't say that he showed no remorse, only that he lied and I would probably lie as well in the same situation. Why do teenagers who beat up other children hardly any punishment at all (Maybe a month), but he is supposed to get 60 years.

At least it won't hold under an appeal and that's a good thing. The girl did it because she got mad so it wasn't an accident, but I don't think she realized the cosequences.
Last Edit: November 17, 2007, 12:10:58 pm by Camlon
Thanks for a great forum
  • Group: Guest
I think Zeratul's point was that from the limited information we have, you're assuming the best of the criminal, while Zeratul's assuming the worst - with "best" and "worst" being relative here, of course: one side puts emphasis on the young age and immaturity of the boy and the other at his glaring inhumanity during court proceedings, which really is the root of this conflict. The way I see it both viewpoints are equally valid from our position so I'd prefer this meta-debate to end so we can, you know, discuss the issue.
Except his 'viewpoint' isn't valid at all because it's just a dumb assumption about the nature of the person which really doesn't have a place in the discussion. If he wants to discuss anything it should be the nature of the crime.
  • Avatar of dom
  • Chapter Four: The Imagination And Where It Leads
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Nov 9, 2003
  • Posts: 1022
This kid doesn't even get a chance of parole until he's over 60 years old. Even if he is rehabilitated, and becomes a good member of society, he is STUCK IN PRISON UNTIL HE'S 60.  This punishment is absolutely ABSURD.

however, the worst sentences are meant to be reserved to those who willingly and in a complete sane state of mind committed a heinous crime (which he did) and demonstrate no remorse (which he has). It is in that spirit in which I wholeheartedly do not disagree with the long sentencing
This kid is 15. It is VERY LIKELY that he will develop remorse for his actions and try to be a good person again. And it's VERY LIKELY that he'll do it LONG BEFORE HIS PAROLE IS UP.

Quote from: 'Zeratul
Zeratul understands quite well how to add and subtract numbers and therefore Zeratul is quite aware that this kid will be white haired' date=' arthritic, and lacking knowledge of a real life beyond the prison cell if he even lives long enough to live out his sentence. Zeratul just doesn't happen to think that this is the worst of atrocities given that the girl he kidnapped and physically and sexually abused is going to be screwed for life in ways that Zeratul will not pretend to be able to predict, except of course to note that it will not be good.[/quote']
This is a stretch, but it is a valid point: this girl can work past what happened to her and live a normal life. The boy (this is on the condition that he, at some point, realises the error of his ways which as said before is very likely) will never be able to do this.
Locked